NZ Match Reports

[Sidbarret]

If cynical play is responded to with foul play, in this case an underhanded uppercut, then the guy who threw the uppercut will get a yellow and the penalty against his team every time.

Whether the instigator should get a yellow is another question, and in this case you can argue yes. The ref has to decide if the original penalty was yellow card worthy. I reckon it's 50/50 if a ref would give a yellow for the original offence.

But I don't think that it can be argued that Fuglistaller shouldn't have been carded and the final penalty against the Rebels for his uppercut.

And I don't think a yellow should be given if someone retaliates and the instigator's offence wasn't worthy of a yellow card.

The problem is refs are letting holding back go in the spirit of keeping the game flowing unless the defending player retaliates. What should be happening is that teams are found to be holding defenders back, they should be penalised, and if they continue to do it there should be yellow cards dished out.

The problem with you proposal, with the way the area is currently being refereed, is that original offender is in a win-win situation. Unless the player being held onto retaliates there will be no penalty, but if there is retaliation the penalty goes to the team that offended first.

 

[Dan54]

Agree Sid, I thought ref on weekend handled it well, but as you say unless there is retaliation they tend to take no action, Burger himself on weekend was holding Blues flankers (as we see a lot of players do every week) at scrum time at least twice, but because there was no reaction nothing was done, and I sure there was plenty more from both sides.

 

[Braveheart81]

Players get held like that all the time in scrums and rucks. Definitely a penalty but a YC would have been harsh IMO. An uppercut is almost always gonna be a card and I couldn't believe at the time how the Aussie commentators were going on about what a bad call that was.

The referee's hands were tied once Fuglistaller threw the punch. He had to be yellow carded.

The problem that creates is that you are then rewarding the side that uses the cynical play to not only gain an advantage from holding back opposition players but also giving them a penalty and a one man advantage for 10 minutes.

That is why I would have yellow carded both of them in this situation. The last thing you want to do is encourage teams to commit cynical infringements because they are likely to get an advantage from the referee.

This is definitely an area of the game that needs to be tightened up. Burger did a good job of highlighting the issue against the Crusaders by hitting at the arms of the player holding him, but clearly not throwing a punch at his head or body.

 

[Scoey]

Just as the cameras were moving away it looked like he threw a punch at the other players body. It was a completed air swing but a punch nonetheless. Had that connected he would've been in just as much trouble as Fug' was.


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[Braveheart81]

Just as the cameras were moving away it looked like he threw a punch at the other players body. It was a completed air swing but a punch nonetheless. Had that connected he would've been in just as much trouble as Fug' was.

There was one replay which showed it. It appeared to just be an exasperated open handed slap towards Franks' body (I think it was). I don't think he was trying to strike him at all.

 

[Scoey]

Possibly. It looked to me to be a closed fist and attempted punch but it matters not anyway.
I don't know of anyone that has been carded for throwing and missing. ;-)


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[Bullrush]

The referee's hands were tied once Fuglistaller threw the punch. He had to be yellow carded.

The problem that creates is that you are then rewarding the side that uses the cynical play to not only gain an advantage from holding back opposition players but also giving them a penalty and a one man advantage for 10 minutes.

That is why I would have yellow carded both of them in this situation. The last thing you want to do is encourage teams to commit cynical infringements because they are likely to get an advantage from the referee.

This is definitely an area of the game that needs to be tightened up. Burger did a good job of highlighting the issue against the Crusaders by hitting at the arms of the player holding him, but clearly not throwing a punch at his head or body.

The thing is, no-one put a gun to Fuglistaller's head and told him to throw a punch. Everyone who knows anything about rugby knew what was going to happen after that - retalliation or not. Had he kept his calm, it was probably going to be a penalty and possibly a YC.

I think this re-inforces the idea that there is no justification for throwing a punch and if you do it, there is absolutely no up-side to it. A double YC a small price to pay for an action that is completely un-acceptable.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Biggest problem is Lee-Lo's too lateral, we need Crotty there which allows everyone else to play where they belong I.e. Slade 10, Taylor 12, Dagg 15. Todd also needs to bring back Zac & give MacNichol another crack. Heinz now injured so Ellis to start. Flynn also injured so get someone in there who can actually throw in properly.

Sanity has somewhat prevailed:

Crusaders [to play Rebels]: Israel Dagg, Nafi Tuitavake, Ryan Crotty, Tom Taylor, Johnny McNicholl, Colin Slade, Andy Ellis, Kieran Read (c), Matt Todd, Luke Whitelock, Samuel Whitelock, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Ben Funnell, Wyatt Crockett. Reserves: Codie Taylor, Tim Perry, Nepo Laulala, Dominic Bird, Jordan Taufua, Mitchell Drummond, Kieron Fonotia, Nemani Nadolo.

Looking forward to seeing Nadolo, apparently he's been impressive at training & for the Development XV (as he should, being a Fiji test player). Gotta wonder what Zac's gotta do to get a recall, though.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

awesome, all 5 NZ sides in action this weekend, all 5 playing foreign interlopers too. Visa Visor Zac, being off to France Toddy's probably said "fine then, go on then, fuck off. The NZRFU's only held your cock for you while you've drunkenly pissed all over everyone's good will, drunken naked escapades abroad, bashing old ladies skulls in at the seaside, fine then, fuckya, we'll pick some half-sober prick."

 

[Blue]

Agree Sid, I thought ref on weekend handled it well, but as you say unless there is retaliation they tend to take no action, Burger himself on weekend was holding Blues flankers (as we see a lot of players do every week) at scrum time at least twice, but because there was no reaction nothing was done, and I sure there was plenty more from both sides.

It was clearly a premeditated tactic from the Crusaders. It was plain to see.

I fucken hate it. I remember how it infuriated me when I used to play. It's perfect. You slow people down and you might provoke some retaliation which is 100% the fault of the guy who swings the punch but it's still not an admirable tactic.

It's replaced taking players out over the advantage line which they were so good at last year.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

awesome, all 5 NZ sides in action this weekend, all 5 playing foreign interlopers too. Visa Visor Zac, being off to France Toddy's probably said "fine then, go on then, fuck off. The NZRFU's only held your cock for you while you've drunkenly pissed all over everyone's good will, drunken naked escapades abroad, bashing old ladies skulls in at the seaside, fine then, fuckya, we'll pick some half-sober prick."

Prediction on how many of the 5 we'll win? Fully expecting my Crusaders & wifey's Chiefs to get the job done, not so sure about the others. Horrorcanes look fully fucked & both Blues & the Clan are all over the shop. I'd settle for 3 wins & 2 bonus point(s) losses.

Yeah, I guess Zac being off to France might explain his being on the outer, as does his dickheadedness, but if you're gonna take that approach why not cut him altogether & give someone from the EPG a shot? Strange.

 

[Dan54]

Doubt any team has it as a premeditated tactic Blue, as I said,I have seen almost all teams do it once in a game in one form or another, know what you say about it pissing you off when you played, although when I played I thought I was so slow they were better off holding some other bugger, so figured they weren't very bright and knew they would be easy to sort out at next ruck!!

 

[ChargerWA]

Any truth to the rumours Israel Dagg is unhappy at the Saders?

 

[Dan54]

Actually Waiopehu listening to talkback from NZ last week, strong hint was given that Zac may have slipped in a couple of beers, and that Toddy may just be ignoring him.
As for NZ teams this week I feeling confident of 4 wins, somehow think the Canes may of pissed us off enough and may start playing, and I not quite given up on Blues sneaking in a win,I saw a few things I liked in their loss last week. I like the look of Saders line up, and find the Chiefs VERY interesting, Marshall fit at 12 and Anscombe back at 15.......Mind you Stormers defence is hard to crack, and Chiefs forwards may have to step up.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Actually Waiopehu listening to talkback from NZ last week, strong hint was given that Zac may have slipped in a couple of beers, and that Toddy may just be ignoring him.
As for NZ teams this week I feeling confident of 4 wins, somehow think the Canes may of pissed us off enough and may start playing, and I not quite given up on Blues sneaking in a win,I saw a few things I liked in their loss last week. I like the look of Saders line up, and find the Chiefs VERY interesting, Marshall fit at 12 and Anscombe back at 15...Mind you Stormers defence is hard to crack, and Chiefs forwards may have to step up.

Saw something on stuff.co.nz pre-season that he'd fallen off the wagon, was disappointed at letting himself & his team down, blah blah, so wouldn't be surprised if what you heard is somewhere near the money. If so, what a waste.

Love your optimism, 4/5 may be a stretch though. Your lot really do need to get it together, they looked awful last week & if the Brums can put 4 past them the Cheetahs surely will but equally you'd expect the sethfrickens to leak a few more as well. could easily be 50/50 on the park & on the scoreboard!

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Chiefs by 20 over Stormfront in Bogantown. They only need about 3 counter attack chances and thats the 20 there.

Crusaders All Blacks forwards to put their hands up and say fuck the backs, they'll grind out meatmurder win vs Melbourne.

Otago vs Force, Ben Smith hat-trick, 30 point margin here.

Auckland to reenact Polynesian b-ball Paremoremo jailbreak vs Lions in bokke land, 5+ tries, either Halai, Piutau or Li a hat-trick. Bank on it*.

*IF Moli the Wild Man of Borneo is on the bench. If he starts, you may as well pencil in loss now.

WGTN vs Cheetahs, similar styles, or at least WGTN used to biff it around with some aplomb, WGTN finally stop the rot to edge home 42-33 in front of a "disappointing" crowd of 102. Of whom 98 thought they were there for the cricket.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

"Chiefs by 20 over Stormfront in Bogantown. They only need about 3 counter attack chances and thats the 20 there."

Uncle Craig's the ref so should be sweet him being both a hometown favourer & honorary one of us (according to half the population of PlanetRugby.com)

"Auckland to reenact Polynesian b-ball Paremoremo jailbreak vs Lions in bokke land, 5+ tries, either Halai, Piutau or Li a hat-trick. Bank on it"

I have no idea wtf the first part of that means but would love to see the rest happen.

 

[Bullrush]

Chiefs by 20 over Stormfront in Bogantown. They only need about 3 counter attack chances and thats the 20 there.

Crusaders All Blacks forwards to put their hands up and say fuck the backs, they'll grind out meatmurder win vs Melbourne.

Otago vs Force, Ben Smith hat-trick, 30 point margin here.

Auckland to reenact Polynesian b-ball Paremoremo jailbreak vs Lions in bokke land, 5+ tries, either Halai, Piutau or Li a hat-trick. Bank on it*.

*IF Moli the Wild Man of Borneo is on the bench. If he starts, you may as well pencil in loss now.

WGTN vs Cheetahs, similar styles, or at least WGTN used to biff it around with some aplomb, WGTN finally stop the rot to edge home 42-33 in front of a "disappointing" crowd of 102. Of whom 98 thought they were there for the cricket.

Just keep starting Tuipulotu and let Moli sit on the bench.

 

[Dan54]

Yep hopefully he starts Tuipulotu, like the look of the young fella, though I can understand him being on bench against Bulls last week, he still a little bit loose at times, and only a kid,don't need him to get shown up too much against Matfield etc. Think Blues really missing Callum Retallick now, against Saffa teams I think you need the good tighties actually playing tight!

 

[Dan54]

Well Blues team out, Benji at 15, Piatau 11, Noakes at 10, Luatua at 8 and Tuipulotu starting, all interesting talking points. I assume Sir JK feels that Hickey shouldn't be hammered too much same with Li, I not too upset about letting young fellas find their way without playing every week. But hell I hope the Noakes decision doesn't come back to bite him, although I tend to think he is better than he played first up. Be interesting to see how Ahki goes in full game at 12, Willison got caught ot on D a couple of times last week.

BLUES: Benji Marshall, Frank Halai, George Moala, Pita Ahki, Charles Piutau, Chris Noakes, Piri Weepu, Steven Luatua, Luke Braid, Brendon O'Connor, Tom Donnelly, Patrick Tuipulotu, Charlie Faumuina, James Parsons, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Tom McCartney, Sam Prattley, Angus Ta'avao, Liaki Moli, Jordan Manihera, Bryn Hall, Simon Hickey, Jackson Willison
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