Pace - Specifically "BLISTERING" Pace

[Rassie]

USARugger, annecdotally American football is full of 120kg monsters that can do 100 metres (that is 2.36 Hundredweight/4.4 Bushels and 219 cubits in your measurement system) in about 10.5 seconds.

Is this actually true, or are all the ultra fast buggers little whippets like Isles?

If true, then assuming that they are interested in taking a pay cut, how long do you think it would take to convert them to an effective Rugby Player - perhaps Wing (basic defence techniques and advanced attack)?

Running with the ball no problem if he can find space or try to run himself into it. But in rugby especially in the 15 man game whatta gonna do when the big men run at you....

 

[dangerousdave]

Like who? (Moved my chair closer and got the popcorn out)

Quade

 

[Rassie]

Quade

Beale? Kurtley don't have a SUper Rugby title

 

[Tomikin]

Lachie Turner had it. I think the only reason Deans picked him in the wallabies was that try where he burnt rico gear playing for the Tahs against the then Deans led Crusaders. Unfortunately, that speed has been left behind with age. Once a winger has lost a bit of pace with age, they have to be very good to be able to stay in the mix. Joe Roff was a good example of this. Habana to a lesser extent. They have to reinvent the way they play to stay relevant

It's not with age, footy players spend to much time putting on size and bulk and that's what slows them, but they need the size for the contact.

 

[Bairdy]

It's not with age, footy players spend to much time putting on size and bulk and that's what slows them, but they need the size for the contact.

As players get older, they continue building their muscles. Compare a 20 year old winger with, say a 28 year old winger and you will note that the latter has had more time to develop and build their bodies up.

 

[Tomikin]

Yeah but if they

As players get older, they continue building their muscles. Compare a 20 year old winger with, say a 28 year old winger and you will note that the latter has had more time to develop and build their bodies up.

Yep for sure, but it's there training more than their age that makes the different, rugby players become top heavy and add bulk and in turn slow down. Mogg is still quick slight even though his put on 11 KG's in 2 years, which probably helped his top speed, if he gets too much more weight and 'Rugby' size he will slow. Have some mates who are top class sprinters

 

[USARugger]

USARugger, annecdotally American football is full of 120kg monsters that can do 100 metres (that is 2.36 Hundredweight/4.4 Bushels and 219 cubits in your measurement system) in about 10.5 seconds.

Is this actually true, or are all the ultra fast buggers little whippets like Isles?

If true, then assuming that they are interested in taking a pay cut, how long do you think it would take to convert them to an effective Rugby Player - perhaps Wing (basic defence techniques and advanced attack)?

Elite sprinting in general isn't restricted to whippet-like people. The biomechanics of sprinting at an elite level are extremely complex and have dozens of variables involved. As a result you'll see just as many, if not more, guys who have won the Olympic 100m Gold Medal that were 183cm+ and 80-90kgs as compared to Isles' size.

Isles was an elite sprinter first and a gridiron player second, anyone calling him a gridiron convert is an idiot and probably does announcing for USARugby. His build reflects this, he's built for acceleration and maximal top-end speed (which takes about 50-60m to get to) were as NFL athletes are built towards explosive acceleration as well as size (with the exception of guys like Danny Amendola/Wes Welker whose stature allows them the agility they need to go under and across defenses, even then these guys are bulky by Isles' standards).

To answer your question though, yes and also no. I'm not really sure about most players 100 times because it isn't something the NFL generally tests for or cares about. If you see a players 100 time getting talked about it's usually by announcers trying to kill time and because they also ran track in high school/college. Like Rugby, top-end speed is much less important than acceleration over 10-20m.

More or less you've got guys like Vernon Davis who are these freak specimens that can achieve speeds that don't make sense at their size, but you also have tons of guys in the middle and even a few on the other end. Positional specialization as well as individual player skills absolutely play a role in this. For example, Vernon Davis ran a 4.38 40-yard dash (36.5m) while Welker only ran a 4.65. Welker is 179cm 83kg, Davis is 190cm 113kg. So you would think picking the bigger and faster guy would be the logical choice, right? Think again, Vernon would get absolutely shut down at slot receiver by any decent linebacker because he cannot change direction at speed or get under defenses nearly as quickly and efficiently as Welker can. His freak strength and speed in a straight line make him a fantastic tight-end option though.

About converting NFL athletes, I'd say it would take at least 3 years to develop these guys into anything resembling a competitive player. First year would have to be focused on reconditioning and building up the anaerobic and aerobic pathways of these athletes as well as retooling their gym sessions to reflect the fact they are now going to be playing an 80 minute game with very different demands from gridiron. Along with that I would focus on introducing the fundamentals of the game through 7s. 7v7 spring ball is actually pretty popular in some parts of the USA so would be less of an adjustment and 7s is a much easier game to understand and a good way to introduce basic concepts and reinforce them. Second year would have to be training focused on 15s and the specific positional skills as well as the beginning of match play and the end of reconditioning. Third year would be an intensive match schedule to build those instinctual skills you only get through match and match-simulated play. I'm gonna throw up my mock-back line of current NFL players late when I'm at the PC. The level of athleticism available here is pretty unbelievable.

I would be shocked to ever see an NFL guy forgo his contract for Rugby. We're talking a paycut of hundreds of thousands even for the practice-squad guys. These guys also grew up playing Gridiron and most of them had a very casual exposure to rugby if any at all growing up. If for some reason this does become a thing though, well, they don't call America the sleeping giant for no reason.

 

[USARugger]

For shits, here's my USA Eagles back line made entirely out of current NFL pros. I omitted scrumhalf because it really isn't possible to predict who would be good at the position without seeing guys play it.

10. Robert "RG3" Griffin III (Quarterback)

• 190cm, 101kg
• 4.41 40-yard dash
• 99cm standing vertical
• 305cm broad jump

I doubt there's really much I can say about this guy that even those of you who casually follow the NFL haven't heard. He's a once-in-a-generation athletic freak with an amazing personality and monstrous focus and competitive drive. He's about as mercurial of a play-maker as you will see in any code of sport involving a ball and other humans, yet he manages to make the right decision the vast majority of the time. In essence, he is Quade Cooper without any of the flaws. If you have a moment read the first comment on this video, his stats and the reel speak for themselves (watch for the step at 2:05, not like it's easy to miss):​

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11. Calvin "Megatron" Johnson (WR (World Rugby))​

• 196cm, 107kg
• 4.35 40-yard dash
• 109cm standing vertical
• 353cm broad jump

You want to see aerial skills combined with some raw speed and size, you say? Eat your heart out Tuqiri.

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12. Adrian "All Day" Peterson (RB)​

• 185cm, 98kg
• 4.4 40-yard dash
• 97cm standing vertical
• 323cm broad jump

Not much needs to be said here. He came off of a full MCL/ACL knee reconstruction in the off-season to rush for over 2,300 yards and win the NFL MVP and the AP NFL Offensive Player of the Year Award. He will go down as one of the best to play the game. All day, baby. Oh yeah, did I mention he also set the NFL record for rushing yards in a single game right before the knee surgery? Freak. (2012 highlights start at around 4:00 but if you don't know his back story watch the whole video to give it all some context).

13. Vernon Davis (TE)

• 191cm, 113kg
• 4.3 40-yard dash
• Sorry but someone fucked with his Wikipedia page.

Big, fast, imposing. Would be great for straightening the line on attack and committing defenders on attack to open up space for the outside backs. Hard to make accurate predictions though as Davis only plays on one side of the ball and 13 has some pretty big defensive aspects, for parity my second choice would be someone like Troy Palomalu.

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14. CJ Spiller (RB)​

• 180cm, 91kg
• 4.37 40-yard dash

Wouldn't be surprised if he was an illegitimate son of Jason Robinson.

​

15. Marques Colston (WR (World Rugby))​

• 193cm, 102kg
• 4.52 40-yard dash
• 94cm standing vertical
• 312cm broad jump

One of the most underrated receivers in the NFL for a very, very long time. Potent in the air and has some of the most unbelievable ball security in the league. I chose this particular reel because it does a great job of highlighting this aspect of his play. (Skip to 00:45)

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[USARugger]

Can only post 5 pieces of media in one post, here's Colston's highlights from 2011:

 

[Rassie]

For shits, here's my USA Eagles back line made entirely out of current NFL pros. I omitted scrumhalf because it really isn't possible to predict who would be good at the position without seeing guys play it.

10. Robert "RG3" Griffin III (Quarterback)

• 190cm, 101kg
• 4.41 40-yard dash
• 99cm standing vertical
• 305cm broad jump

I doubt there's really much I can say about this guy that even those of you who casually follow the NFL haven't heard. He's a once-in-a-generation athletic freak with an amazing personality and monstrous focus and competitive drive. He's about as mercurial of a play-maker as you will see in any code of sport involving a ball and other humans, yet he manages to make the right decision the vast majority of the time. In essence, he is Quade Cooper without any of the flaws. If you have a moment read the first comment on this video, his stats and the reel speak for themselves (watch for the step at 2:05, not like it's easy to miss):​

​

​

11. Calvin "Megatron" Johnson (WR (World Rugby))​

• 196cm, 107kg
• 4.35 40-yard dash
• 109cm standing vertical
• 353cm broad jump

You want to see aerial skills combined with some raw speed and size, you say? Eat your heart out Tuqiri.

​

12. Adrian "All Day" Peterson (RB)​

• 185cm, 98kg
• 4.4 40-yard dash
• 97cm standing vertical
• 323cm broad jump

Not much needs to be said here. He came off of a full MCL/ACL knee reconstruction in the off-season to rush for over 2,300 yards and win the NFL MVP and the AP NFL Offensive Player of the Year Award. He will go down as one of the best to play the game. All day, baby. Oh yeah, did I mention he also set the NFL record for rushing yards in a single game right before the knee surgery? Freak. (2012 highlights start at around 4:00 but if you don't know his back story watch the whole video to give it all some context).

13. Vernon Davis (TE)

• 191cm, 113kg
• 4.3 40-yard dash
• Sorry but someone fucked with his Wikipedia page.

Big, fast, imposing. Would be great for straightening the line on attack and committing defenders on attack to open up space for the outside backs. Hard to make accurate predictions though as Davis only plays on one side of the ball and 13 has some pretty big defensive aspects, for parity my second choice would be someone like Troy Palomalu.

​

​

14. CJ Spiller (RB)​

• 180cm, 91kg
• 4.37 40-yard dash

Wouldn't be surprised if he was an illegitimate son of Jason Robinson.

​

15. Marques Colston (WR (World Rugby))​

• 193cm, 102kg
• 4.52 40-yard dash
• 94cm standing vertical
• 312cm broad jump

One of the most underrated receivers in the NFL for a very, very long time. Potent in the air and has some of the most unbelievable ball security in the league. I chose this particular reel because it does a great job of highlighting this aspect of his play. (Skip to 00:45)

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You forgot the fact that more than half of the NFL players were diagnosed Obesity and the avg NFL player career span is 4 years generally quarterbacks have luxury of surviving a bit longer. Most of those 300 pound monsters will be happy to see 50!

 

[Braveheart81]

If you look at one of the best running backs in the NFL, CJ2K Chris Johnson, he is listed as 5'11 (180cm) and 87kg. Those measurements are pretty much identical to James O'Connor.

He is certainly one of the smaller running backs though he is also absolutely one of the best.

 

[Rassie]

NFL players build themselves up for lots of collisions and others for blocking. Hence some of the massive Coke machines on two legs. Rugby is moving in that direction. Luckily its not there yet but its certainly is moving in that direction.

 

[USARugger]

If you look at one of the best running backs in the NFL, CJ2K Chris Johnson, he is listed as 5'11 (180cm) and 87kg. Those measurements are pretty much identical to James O'Connor.

He is certainly one of the smaller running backs though he is also absolutely one of the best.

No. No. No. No. So many times no. If you think Chris Johnson is an elite RB you are about 3-4 years out of touch with the NFL. I think this is the first time in two years I've seen the '2K' nickname used in a non-mocking fashion.

He's a one-dimensional RB that can't go between tackles and gets worked when he can't get around athletic defensive ends and he isn't great at following his blocks either. If you want to see an elite but small RB scroll up and watch the CJ Spiller highlights.

If you want to get extreme go look up Maurice Jones-Drew. He's something like 5'6" and infinitely better than Chris Johnson. He literally is the Jacksonville offense.

 

[Braveheart81]

No. No. No. No. So many times no. If you think Chris Johnson is an elite RB you are about 3-4 years out of touch with the NFL. I think this is the first time in two years I've seen the '2K' nickname used in a non-mocking fashion.

He's a one-dimensional RB that can't go between tackles and gets worked when he can't get around athletic defensive ends and he isn't great at following his blocks either. If you want to see an elite but small RB scroll up and watch the CJ Spiller highlights.

If you want to get extreme go look up Maurice Jones-Drew. He's something like 5'6" and infinitely better than Chris Johnson. He literally is the Jacksonville offense.

Last season was really the first time in a long time that I have followed NFL (because friends got me involved in a Fantasy NFL team).

I agree that CJ2K was terrible, but he was close to the best running back a few years ago and is still an elite running back. I was really just referencing his size in that it is remarkably similar to JOC (James O'Connor). Jones-Drew is shorter but heavier.

As a random aside, Maurice Jones-Drew and LeSean McCoy were my top two fantasy draft picks and both of them spent a fair chunk of the season injured. Which meant my team sucked!

 

[USARugger]

You were screwed picking a running back under Andy Reid this season injuries aside!

CJ had one good year but since then has be unable to replicate it game to game much less season to season. If you look at some of the top RBs like MJD, AP, Shady, Ray Rice, etc. they maintain a remarkably high output year after year regardless of even the team around them.

I think in this case JOC (James O'Connor) is the superior athlete. His footwork is truly world class.

 

[Rassie]

^And the Oakland Raiders offense is he NFL version of Frans Steyn and his mutant boot.

 

[Braveheart81]

You were screwed picking a running back under Andy Reid this season injuries aside!

CJ had one good year but since then has be unable to replicate it game to game much less season to season. If you look at some of the top RBs like MJD, AP, Shady, Ray Rice, etc. they maintain a remarkably high output year after year regardless of even the team around them.

I think in this case JOC (James O'Connor) is the superior athlete. His footwork is truly world class.

I started with no knowledge. I just followed mock drafts choices by Fantasy Football experts.

Surely Arian Foster has to be right near the top of the RBs.

 

[USARugger]

I started with no knowledge. I just followed mock drafts choices by Fantasy Football experts.

Surely Arian Foster has to be right near the top of the RBs.

Yep he's Top 2 or 3 depending on who you ask. His workload this past year has me anxious about drafting him. Over 400 carries in a season is a statistical death knell for running backs. The numbers say he should get hurt this year

 

[joshbristow]

Okay I know it's from his league return but Tuqiri still had it in 2010 before his arm started breaking every 5 minutes. Can't find any videos of him back in the union days but Vintage Lote 2003-2005 was the man.

 

[jay-c]

i loved tuquri, but he was a perfect example of someone spending too much time in the gym> put on way too much weight and lost his pace and specifically his acceleration (exactly what i fear has happened to oconner)