Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

[TahDan]

Instead of these vague motherhood statements like "mostly for his Nasser inspired tendencies I've pointed to" how about you actually point to something specific.

Because you just throw around generalizations as justification for your dislike.

I have, you just haven't been paying attention apparently.

On-field: tendency to avoid taking the ball into contact, poor tactical kicking (particularly in the South Africa test - improved slightly against the Pumas), and erratic and risky decision making.

Off field: displays childishness and self entitlement, leading him to overreact to a silly article with an expletive laden tweet. As I have posted, he was worse before and has seemed to be improving on this front following his poor off field courting of controversy during the Deans era, but the tweet was evidence he's just not quite there yet and he's just not that good that we need him around if he's going to carry on like an idiot every time some Kiwi has a go at him.


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[Train Without a Station]

Thanks for responding with more broad generalizations. Really clears things up.

You'd think for all this childish and self entitled behavior you'd be able to point to a specific example or two. In about 2 minutes I was able to post 6 or so social media screen shots of his that paint the opposite picture.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

All right fellas, can we move on please?

 

[Braveheart81]

All right fellas, can we move on please?

As soon as people stop citing The Roar as a credible source on rugby.

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[TahDan]

All right fellas, can we move on please?

We'd have moved on a while ago but it seems criticizing Cooper is grounds for an intervention with some here.

Look, I get that you think some of the criticism has been unwarranted or unfair, and some probably has been, but the defenses of him have been unreasonable themselves, with people demanding facts and stats whilst providing poorly supported criticisms of other players.

The Foley thing is a perfect example. Myself and others here say Cooper ran sideways and backwards - and he did - and guys like TWAS immediately just dismiss it as though it didn't happen and then say Foley did too so it's all good.

Yeah, Foley did run sideways, and yeah his kicking was off and he missed more tackles. But again, he also made more tackles than Coopers paltry 2 and neither have been kicking too well for goal.

The question is, who has done more to earn the position in the last two years? The guy steering around Australia's best performing Super Rugby team, or the bloke who has been running one of the poorest?

Again, this isn't unreasonable to ask. I never said Foley or Giteau or To'omua were perfect, I just reckon they've earned it more the past two years and Cooper has put on a couple ordinary displays that show he's not exactly a more talented or deserving player for the position.


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[fatprop]

That's where I disagree. Horne was Horne in game 1. Meaning he was solid without being very threatening. Tomane was quiet apart from his try - where he showed how valuable pace is. On defence he looked lost at times - he will get found out against the AB's.

Speight has pace like Tomane and defends just as good as Horne, if he is fit enough then throw him in.

Although I did forget about Mitchell - he might get a start too.

I think Speight is great, but he hasn't played for ages, so nup

 

[Quick Hands]

On the performances of the past 2 weeks, no one has made the 10 jersey their own. IMO Foley is marginally ahead, but that's about it.

 

[TahDan]

On the performances of the past 2 weeks, no one has made the 10 jersey their own. IMO Foley is marginally ahead, but that's about it.

On that we agree.


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[Groucho]

I'm with Barbs, McCalman had a good game on the weekend. I think he provides a good foil to the running game of Hooper and if you have a match day 23 with Pocock, Fardy, Hooper and him in it pretty much all bases are covered.

Yeah, McCalman is definitely in the underrated category now.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

We'd have moved on a while ago but it seems criticizing Cooper is grounds for an intervention with some here.

Look, I get that you think some of the criticism has been unwarranted or unfair, and some probably has been, but the defenses of him have been unreasonable themselves, with people demanding facts and stats whilst providing poorly supported criticisms of other players.

The Foley thing is a perfect example. Myself and others here say Cooper ran sideways and backwards - and he did - and guys like TWAS immediately just dismiss it as though it didn't happen and then say Foley did too so it's all good.

Yeah, Foley did run sideways, and yeah his kicking was off and he missed more tackles. But again, he also made more tackles than Coopers paltry 2 and neither have been kicking too well for goal.

The question is, who has done more to earn the position in the last two years? The guy steering around Australia's best performing Super Rugby team, or the bloke who has been running one of the poorest?

Again, this isn't unreasonable to ask. I never said Foley or Giteau or To'omua were perfect, I just reckon they've earned it more the past two years and Cooper has put on a couple ordinary displays that show he's not exactly a more talented or deserving player for the position.


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You may or may not be right, but both of you were banging on about this going in circles.

 

[Groucho]

It would be lovely to ask Cheika why he had Phipps box kicking in this game

The Foxniscenti said that it was the essential difference between Supe and test rugby. Game mamagement, they said. They've been drinking from the same Kool-Aid trough as Nick White and Will Genia, methinks.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think you'll find Beale will get a shot at 12 before Lilo. Beale was selected in the original squad while Lilo was brought in after Gits injured his sternum.

Probably, but it might depend on whether Cheika sees Beale as a starting proposition. Wouldn't surprise if he considers Beale to be a 'specialist' bench player in which case Lealiifano might come into the starting side with Beale still to come on later in the game. Apparently, he's still recovering from a hammy atm also.

 

[lewisr]

I have, you just haven't been paying attention apparently.

On-field: tendency to avoid taking the ball into contact, poor tactical kicking (particularly in the South Africa test - improved slightly against the Pumas), and erratic and risky decision making.

Off field: displays childishness and self entitlement, leading him to overreact to a silly article with an expletive laden tweet. As I have posted, he was worse before and has seemed to be improving on this front following his poor off field courting of controversy during the Deans era, but the tweet was evidence he's just not quite there yet and he's just not that good that we need him around if he's going to carry on like an idiot every time some Kiwi has a go at him.


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I would love to hear your opinion of Beale.


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[Brumby Runner]

Foley - 6 made, 5 missed. He's a big liability.
.

I don't believe them @Barbarian. Saw him miss a couple but saw him make more than 1 I reckon.

EDIT "My mistake. Thought it was 6 attempted and 5 missed. 6 made and 5 missed is much more as I thought after one viewing, but even then 5 missed looks a bit high based on my recollection.

 

[TahDan]

I would love to hear your opinion of Beale.


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Basically a carbon copy of Cooper - same skills, similar personality and similar deficiencies.

I probably am more forgiving after his role in the 2014 Waratahs win, but his form this year wasn't great and I don't see him as more than a bench player - also like Quade.



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[Quick Hands]

I would love to hear your opinion of Beale.


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We can at least be grateful that the tweet wasn't his or we'd be on page 137 by now.

 

[The Red Baron]

I don't believe them @Barbarian. Saw him miss a couple but saw him make more than 1 I reckon.

He attempted 11, made 6 and missed 5, just like Barbs said..

 

[Quick Hands]

The Foxniscenti said that it was the essential difference between Supe and test rugby. Game mamagement, they said. They've been drinking from the same Kool-Aid trough as Nick White and Will Genia, methinks.

The only saving grace was that the box kicks that he did make were accurate and effective. It's not a tactic I enjoy - it has it's place, but unless it is close to 100% accurate the box kick is a liability.

 

[Train Without a Station]

We'd have moved on a while ago but it seems criticizing Cooper is grounds for an intervention with some here.

Look, I get that you think some of the criticism has been unwarranted or unfair, and some probably has been, but the defenses of him have been unreasonable themselves, with people demanding facts and stats whilst providing poorly supported criticisms of other players.

The Foley thing is a perfect example. Myself and others here say Cooper ran sideways and backwards - and he did - and guys like TWAS immediately just dismiss it as though it didn't happen and then say Foley did too so it's all good.

Yeah, Foley did run sideways, and yeah his kicking was off and he missed more tackles. But again, he also made more tackles than Coopers paltry 2 and neither have been kicking too well for goal.

The question is, who has done more to earn the position in the last two years? The guy steering around Australia's best performing Super Rugby team, or the bloke who has been running one of the poorest?

Again, this isn't unreasonable to ask. I never said Foley or Giteau or To'omua were perfect, I just reckon they've earned it more the past two years and Cooper has put on a couple ordinary displays that show he's not exactly a more talented or deserving player for the position.


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We have said for the past 2 weeks our players have run laterally.

I've personally offered reasonable excuses. You can criticise Cooper for running sideways, but considering at times he was tackled as soon as he caught the ball, what were his options?

We have not received ball that has enabled our 10 to straighten and play flat. foley suffered the same. He often plays flat and direct so I'm certainly not blaming the problems on him. Don't go putting words in my mouth:

And as for your "paltry 2 tackles" comment. As Barbarian said, how is it a players fault for making every tackle but not being tested? Didn't know we judged our backs on how many tackles they made. He's not a loose forward.

Foley looked like a bit of a weakness, but so are most 10s so I don't see his defence a huge issue.

I love your comment "The guy steering around Australia's best performing Super Rugby team, or the bloke who has been running one of the poorest?". Quade Cooper has played less than 15 games the past 2 seasons. Are we blaming him for the Reds losses when he doesn't play too? You do realise being in a better team doesn't instantly make players 1-15 the best player in their position right?

 

[Groucho]

I would love to hear your opinion of Beale.


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All three of the Amigos seem to share the same defects.

They'd be written off as transient mistakes if they weren't celebrities, and especially sports celebrities, who are held to higher moral standards than their critics would ever contemplate for themselves.

If the Internet was restricted to people who'd never done any of the things the Amigos are pilloried for, there'd only be self-righteous journalists, tumbleweeds and liars left.

I've been in Burger King at 2am. There, I admit it. I've been out on the turps the night before major business events. I've sent gratuitously insulting emails about work colleagues, and been caught.

Maybe I have a future in pro rugby?