QLD Premier Rugby 2011

[tigerland12]

Happy to be proven wrong, I was just stating what I've been told by numerous people, whether or not they're right is another thing.

 

[happyjack]

Each and every club will have their own culture on how they recruit, develop and retain players. There are some interesting points raised in the recent posts however you wouldn't want all clubs to adopt the same strategy. While money does help clubs have to be very careful in how they spend it, as for most of them once it is given to a player it is gone and unless it has been appropriately budgeted and sourced as income initially, the club will pay the penalty in the end.
Player development is the key and it is the cheapest way to achieve results. Sunnybank has invested heavily in supporting local schools and under 17 junior club Rugby. Many of these players have gone onto play for other clubs however the net effect is that Sunnybank has fielded 3 colts teams for 5 years straight on the back of this yield. In addition they have made sure they have had a Premier standard coach at Premier Colts level. This can often mean that some very raw talent can be developed such as Seiuli and Ah Wong who both started in Colts 2.
Of the 12 contracted and 1 academy players at Sunnybank: Gill, Schatz and the 2 Lucas boys are all Juniors; Holmes, Anae, Simmons, Alo-Emile and Kingi started in Colts, Wallace-Harrison came over as an amateur from Perth more than a decade ago. Only Tapuai and Houston have chosen the club as professionals and no players signed to the Reds from interstate have come to the club.
It would be far more convenient to use the annual financial clout to sign players from around Australia or the other clubs however it would destroy the comp and make the notional value of winning meaningless.
Of all the practices that are questionable the dumping of 1st and 3rd grade by Easts on the weekend so they could qualify their 2nd and 4th grade teams is one that I think does the entire system no favours and speaks much to the cultural values at a club.

 

[RugbyReg]

Financials aren't just about money and clubs crying poor. It's also the assistence from the Government that some clubs are able to apply for and others can't or it is not as substantial. . AND YES there are deals made under the table Re financial assistance whether it be help with courses (studying), housing etc, AND YES it definitely happens. Not all clubs can help in these matters.
. Also Easts began their decline of players from pre 1st round with their hooker suffering a work accident. By the time Sunnybanks game came around in the 1st round Easts had alreday lost quite a few players.

am interested to know more about what you mean here? Is there something your club is missing out on? QRU offers service in this area. I'd be keen to know if I can help out.

 

[RugbyReg]

my bad, was trying to think through who'd they be, shon siemonik is one.

caleb ralph!

 

[Saders07]

Payment or what is probably more aptly termed incentive takes many forms...that said coach and player development programs as well as strong culture are the club's responsibility. The afore mentioned successful clubs this season do invest in development and recruitment, and do generally have full time resource to allocate.

Let's change the subject - anyone wanna discuss Wests 20 Brothers 17, arguably the upset of the season?

 

[Pauly]

Ben Mowen will be back at Easts next year I've been told.

Hope they're not paying him!

Seriously though, I thought Ben had signed with the Brumbies, so Easts probably won't see him until August at the earliest.

 

[Ironingman]

Let's change the subject - anyone wanna discuss Wests 20 Brothers 17, arguably the upset of the season?[/QUOTE]

No, not really, but well done to the Dogs! Great spoon saving effort.

 

[Jets]

I think a lot has been said on here about the injuries of clubs throughout the season and a good point was made that it is a fact of life in a contact sport. At Easts the one example that is consisitent accross most positions is that they finished the season with the're 4th choice hooker, which is all i will say about that so as not to sound like a whinger. i think the key to consistently good performance of premier grade clubs over a few years is dependant on a quality reserve grade team which can put pressure on the clubs top players to perform and fill holes through the season when needed. Brothers and GPS are the best example of this as they always put a strong and physical reserve side on the park each week which is why they are amongst finals footy most years.

As for players being paid by clubs a few questions can be posed and i'd be interested to hear other peoples comments and thoughts:
- is it financially respopnsible of a club to pay a super rugby player to play for theire club considering the limited time they will play in the premier season (even more next season with super rugby going into August i believe) and the value they add to the club and the clubs responsiblilties in fostering development of the game and players at junior and grassroots level. I think money is better spent developing players rather than paying Super Players but inn saying that I have no issue with a club rewarding players who have come through their systems. Clubs would get a much better return on investment in paying a player just below Super level who will turn out for the club on a regular occurrence
-Are the players being greedy, considering they are paid a years wage by the QRU to play rugby as a profession Maybe but if the money is offered why would the player knock it back?
- How does it affect the culture of the club with players coming in and out of the team and players losing spots in the team to players coming back Defiantly something that should be considered. I think if the club has a strong culture then it wouldn't be an issue. Plus it depends on the players involved. If the rep player puts in at the club then they would be happy for him to return
- Is it healthy for the competition. Not at all. For the competition to thrive there needs to be a spread of talent between all of the teams involved. That is why competitions around the world have drafts and salary caps.

One last point: Easts won 14 games out of 18- the same number that minor premier uni won yet wont be around for the last 3 weeks of the season. Considering Rugby and finals rugby are all about beating teams, are bonus point good or bad. None the less the tigers gave their all this year and should be proud of themselves. good luck to uni in what has been an emotional year for them. My tip Uni to beat sunnybank in the GF in what should be a classic game.

 

[Marshall09]

HI Guys,

So from what I have seen it looks like everyone has written off GPS and Brothers already.

I think that is a little premature given that GPS have beaten Sunnybank both times they have played them this year. And both times Sunnybank had a number of their star studded players on the field.

GPS are in good form and I think if they can start well its going to be game on!!!!

The Filth are up against it Vs Uni but I still think it could be closer than first thought.

Finals football is an interesting beast and I think there could be an upset on the cards.


Thoughts???

 

[League Legend]

Each and every club will have their own culture on how they recruit, develop and retain players. There are some interesting points raised in the recent posts however you wouldn't want all clubs to adopt the same strategy. While money does help clubs have to be very careful in how they spend it, as for most of them once it is given to a player it is gone and unless it has been appropriately budgeted and sourced as income initially, the club will pay the penalty in the end.
Player development is the key and it is the cheapest way to achieve results. Sunnybank has invested heavily in supporting local schools and under 17 junior club Rugby. Many of these players have gone onto play for other clubs however the net effect is that Sunnybank has fielded 3 colts teams for 5 years straight on the back of this yield. In addition they have made sure they have had a Premier standard coach at Premier Colts level. This can often mean that some very raw talent can be developed such as Seiuli and Ah Wong who both started in Colts 2.
Of the 12 contracted and 1 academy players at Sunnybank: Gill, Schatz and the 2 Lucas boys are all Juniors; Holmes, Anae, Simmons, Alo-Emile and Kingi started in Colts, Wallace-Harrison came over as an amateur from Perth more than a decade ago. Only Tapuai and Houston have chosen the club as professionals and no players signed to the Reds from interstate have come to the club.
It would be far more convenient to use the annual financial clout to sign players from around Australia or the other clubs however it would destroy the comp and make the notional value of winning meaningless.
Of all the practices that are questionable the dumping of 1st and 3rd grade by Easts on the weekend so they could qualify their 2nd and 4th grade teams is one that I think does the entire system no favours and speaks much to the cultural values at a club.

I dissaggree with this comment. The players that played in these games were legtimate 2nd and 4th grade players respectively, however found themselves playing above their level of abilty through the season due to unavailabilty in higher grades. There is nothing wrong with a team trying to get their players who will be available to them come finals to play together for the last game before finals. The QRU rules are strict for player eligibilty for finals and i know for a fact the coaches of these 2 teams were continuslly struggling to keep there players together through the season. It is a tough gig being a lower grade coach at a club with 6 senior teams. I dont think someone coming from Sunnybank can comment on the culture of another club, considering your club's success depends on the strength of the communities pokie addiction. However i will give you credit for your comments on Sunnybanks player recruitment and development at colts and junior level. So based on the comments posted recently is it only the faainga twins who demand to be paid by their club?

 

[WESTCOMBE RANGER]

Might be appropriate here to ask the question from all those in the know - Which clubs actually pay their players ? And if they do - Are they the Contracted Reds players only?

Ranger

 

[tigerland12]

I'm not going to comment anymore on the clubs payment things, but was it GPS who paid for the Fainga'a boys? Was that true or just a rumor? Weird considering they were never much of a chance of playing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Shute Shield, do all clubs pay their players?

 

[ikaletahi]

am i the onle psrson who follows brisbane rugby that is sick of hearing about easts injury issues? the team they put out on the weekend should have been more than able to handle what the 'bank was offering.

imo - bermingham is not as great as has been described here. i think the reds should have invested more in keeping PAE than this young buck who i feel is still some years away from being considered a 'prospect'
i think picking him for that QLD xv would have comparable to the selection of genia in that team - confused.

in reply ranger - not a single player at gps receives money for playing although some probably should (jono ellis - someone give that man a chance already!)

 

[tigerland12]

am i the onle psrson who follows brisbane rugby that is sick of hearing about easts injury issues? the team they put out on the weekend should have been more than able to handle what the 'bank was offering.

imo - bermingham is not as great as has been described here. i think the reds should have invested more in keeping PAE than this young buck who i feel is still some years away from being considered a 'prospect'
i think picking him for that QLD xv would have comparable to the selection of genia in that team - confused.

To be fair it did impact their season in a massive way, no one is making excuses. But I think University are the only said capable of beating the Sunnybank side, although the filth have been brilliant most of the year.

And I think that is a bit harsh on Big Red, he is fresh out of school and was basically thrown in the deep end. And I'm not sure how many games you actually saw him play, but out of the ones I did (most of them), he had one poor game (against Sunnybank). His scrummaging was brilliant most of the year and has really stepped up his workrate.

 

[twenty seven]

Big Red stood up well. He suffered from an illness at the start of the season and ha worked hard to get full fitness back. The kid lifted his work load enormously and did very well for one his age. Don't forget that forwards are still in development stages at this age. Very hard for young ones in the tight five - their maturation point is still a fair way off. Go Big Red.

 

[Jets]

In terms of the games this weekend I think it will be much closer than first thought. GPS have had the wood on Sunnybank so far this season and if there is rain on the weekend I think it would suit their game style and slow down the Dragon's backs. Uni v Brothers will be close too as there is 100 years of history between these two clubs that always makes sure that the players are up for a big one.

 

[Jets]

I'm not going to comment anymore on the clubs payment things, but was it GPS who paid for the Fainga'a boys? Was that true or just a rumor? Weird considering they were never much of a chance of playing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Shute Shield, do all clubs pay their players?

Bit of a contradictory statement there don't you think?

 

[Jets]

I dissaggree with this comment. The players that played in these games were legtimate 2nd and 4th grade players respectively, however found themselves playing above their level of abilty through the season due to unavailabilty in higher grades. There is nothing wrong with a team trying to get their players who will be available to them come finals to play together for the last game before finals. The QRU rules are strict for player eligibilty for finals and i know for a fact the coaches of these 2 teams were continuslly struggling to keep there players together through the season. It is a tough gig being a lower grade coach at a club with 6 senior teams. I dont think someone coming from Sunnybank can comment on the culture of another club, considering your club's success depends on the strength of the communities pokie addiction. However i will give you credit for your comments on Sunnybanks player recruitment and development at colts and junior level. So based on the comments posted recently is it only the faainga twins who demand to be paid by their club?

I am going to have to agree with happyjack here. It is my belief that teams should field their strongest players in the highest grade possible. Your are now saying that at Easts they have coaches who's policy is to keep players in a lower grade so they can play finals in a blatant attempt to flaunt the QRU rules? If that is the case then it is the logical conclusion that there are cultural issues.

As for your comment in regards to Sunnybank and their pokies what is your problem with the fact that the leadership of their club made some good business decisions in the past that have allowed them to be a financially viable entity that doesn't require handouts to survive? I can only conclude that it is jealousy. It would be great if more clubs were in this enviable position. People don't seem to take into account that the Community Club provides funds to prop up the schoolboy state championships and the Queensland Schoolboys teams.

Also as Rugby Reg stated earlier the QRU are very willing to assist clubs in becoming more financially viable. It is another area where they have made huge leaps forward in the last few years. If you think your club need help in this area get you committee to contact them and I'm sure they will be only to happy to help.

 

[leakytap]

I'm not going to comment anymore on the clubs payment things, but was it GPS who paid for the Fainga'a boys? Was that true or just a rumor? Weird considering they were never much of a chance of playing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Shute Shield, do all clubs pay their players?

I do believe they do but how many and how much lesser quality players get I dont know. I have heard of some players being offered $8k for the season, but they have to be of super 15 quality.
You will also find that the Sydney clubs charge admission and have done so for decades.
So for arguments sake a crowd of 600 at say $10 equals $6k. 20 games @ $400 per game equals $8k - 15 players @ $400 = $6k.
I know this is a simplistic example but it is done to emphasise the crowds/entry needed to try and break even. And it doesn't take into account food/alcohol sales etc.

 

[ikaletahi]

i will admit that i have only bermingham play a few times (club and last year at school) in all those times i believe that the hype didnt quite match the performance he gave. if you are going to cite his age as a reasom for his play, might i remind you that props playing premier rugby straight out of school is not all that uncommon anymore... david feao (bshs, oz schools) played for souths gf team straight out of school and acquited himself very well...PAE is another example too and to a lesser extent phil kite who has been getting minutes at gps too.
i am not trying to be disrespectful of you and others pov but i just cant see what everyone raves about him so much - i stand steadfast in my point that if i had to choose between who i would have put in the academy between and PAE (or even the palupe twins or kite) well.. there would be no choice quite frankly.
anyway he'll probably prove me wrong now and go on to play a 100 tests haha
my tip for the finals --- the mighty gallopers to make the grandy (dont want to sound too cocky now lol so i wont predict a premiership...yet)