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Queensland Reds 2024

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
However I find 2 weeks for an attempted head butt where he really had a crack but happened to have shit aim to be absurd.

"I was trying to headbutt him in the chest because I knew it wouldn't cause injury. Do you really think I'm crazy and was going to headbutt someone with force in the face and miss the whole season?"

So for a headbutt, it may be 5 weeks penalty, if you do no damage you immediately start the 5 weeks, if you mange to connect and break a nose and the victim is out for 2 weeks then you essentially would get 7 weeks, wait 2 weeks prior to the 5 week penalty starting.

(g) the effect of the Player’s actions on the victim (for example, extent of injury, removal of victim Player from the game);

What happened to the victim is one of the considerations as to the seriousness of the charge.

I don't think you can reasonably make it the driving force behind suspensions because of the imbalance that would result from similar actions.

Overall I think all of these different cases show how tricky the whole disciplinary system is.

The one thing that I would be in a hurry to change for World Rugby is to reduce the headline suspensions for most categories but then subsequently reduce the number of weeks available under mitigation. This is assuming that World Rugby is happy with the general level of suspensions that the various judiciaries are handing down (and I don't think there is any evidence to suggest they aren't), but the fact that rugby fans complain about this almost every single time suggests that it could be improved.

In criminal trials you get a reduction for pleading guilty at the first possible circumstance because it saves taxpayers a lot of money. That really isn't the case here. The judiciary still goes through the process determining the level of the charge and the subsequent sanction. There's not a dramatically shorter process because the guilty plea.

If three weeks is the final sentence you want to arrive at, have the penalty start at four weeks and reduce it by one for the guilty plea and remorse. If they challenge it and lose they get 4. If they have a tarnished record they get 4. If they have a bad record they get 5 etc.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
"I was trying to headbutt him in the chest because I knew it wouldn't cause injury. Do you really think I'm crazy and was going to headbutt someone with force in the face and miss the whole season?"



(g) the effect of the Player’s actions on the victim (for example, extent of injury, removal of victim Player from the game);

What happened to the victim is one of the considerations as to the seriousness of the charge.

I don't think you can reasonably make it the driving force behind suspensions because of the imbalance that would result from similar actions.

Overall I think all of these different cases show how tricky the whole disciplinary system is.

The one thing that I would be in a hurry to change for World Rugby is to reduce the headline suspensions for most categories but then subsequently reduce the number of weeks available under mitigation. This is assuming that World Rugby is happy with the general level of suspensions that the various judiciaries are handing down (and I don't think there is any evidence to suggest they aren't), but the fact that rugby fans complain about this almost every single time suggests that it could be improved.

In criminal trials you get a reduction for pleading guilty at the first possible circumstance because it saves taxpayers a lot of money. That really isn't the case here. The judiciary still goes through the process determining the level of the charge and the subsequent sanction. There's not a dramatically shorter process because the guilty plea.

If three weeks is the final sentence you want to arrive at, have the penalty start at four weeks and reduce it by one for the guilty plea and remorse. If they challenge it and lose they get 4. If they have a tarnished record they get 4. If they have a bad record they get 5 etc.
I’m sorry - with regards to the comments he wasn’t trying to head butt him in the face, that’s piss poor. He deliberately tried to head butt him. Trying to claim some moral leverage because he didn’t go for maximum damage is a croc in my view.

That said, what’s done is done. I do agree that managing the complexity of assessing a bunch of different incidents against each other is tough. By and large I don’t have too many issues with what I have seen handed out this year. That one is a clear error IMO though.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I’m sorry - with regards to the comments he wasn’t trying to head butt him in the face, that’s piss poor. He deliberately tried to head butt him. Trying to claim some moral leverage because he didn’t go for maximum damage is a croc in my view.

That said, what’s done is done. I do agree that managing the complexity of assessing a bunch of different incidents against each other is tough. By and large I don’t have too many issues with what I have seen handed out this year. That one is a clear error IMO though.

You know I'm playing devil's advocate here and I'm not condoning his actions but I also think you can't look at it simply under the guise of intent because we don't really know that.

You could argue that Tate McDermott was trying to break the player's jaw with his swinging arm and his suspension should be a lot longer.

The outcome of the incident has to be the basis for how it's sanctioned in my view. I don't see how you could take the disciplinary regulations and arrive at a significantly harsher sanction for the headbutt by the Drua player.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
You know I'm playing devil's advocate here and I'm not condoning his actions but I also think you can't look at it simply under the guise of intent because we don't really know that.

You could argue that Tate McDermott was trying to break the player's jaw with his swinging arm and his suspension should be a lot longer.

The outcome of the incident has to be the basis for how it's sanctioned in my view. I don't see how you could take the disciplinary regulations and arrive at a significantly harsher sanction for the headbutt by the Drua player.
Yeah - I do. But I still disagree with the premise that you’re making. He deliberately head butted someone. Intent is clear. We may not know if he intended to knock him unconscious or if he intended to head butt him in the pec so as to not do any serious damage but any pro footballer who throws a head butt should be expecting a longer suspension. Hell, any average park footballer should.

I agree Tate could well be considered lucky too. A swinging arm to the head is stupidity. Not as bad as a headbutt, but not great either and I personally would’ve accepted if he’d got longer.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
It's worth mentioning that Darcy Swain got two weeks for his headbutt as well and Folau Fainga'a got one week for his. So if they are errors, at least they are consistent errors
Very different amounts of force. They were more a rub than anything. Still dumb and rightly punished, but almost no chance of causing actual injury.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
While I like it, I think with the Wales Teat and B&I Lions tickets I’ve exhausted my rugby budget this year
 

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
Yeh the reason I ask is because I feel like the Reds put a lot of effort into the design of the ANZAC jersey this year, it's unique and whilst I personally wouldn't wear one, I think the story and meaning behind it is great.

I wonder if the Reds and teams in general should start moving away from trying to sell replicas of all of these special match jerseys and instead create accompanying merch which is more suitable to everyday wear for the fans. I honestly don't see them selling many of the ANZAC jerseys, but if they instead had a limited polo or gym shirt in which proceeds would go towards a veteran charity etc. I would definitely grab one.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Andrew Slack (58)
That's a great idea. Think people would buy a cap or polo. Plenty of groups like legacy or the Invictis Games I'm sure would get involved. Pretty sure Australian Army Rugby wear a Red Jersey. Pretty similar to the 2011 colour. Slightly lighter. I would have leaned into that for a one off.
 

dillyboy

Nev Cottrell (35)
That's a great idea. Think people would buy a cap or polo. Plenty of groups like legacy or the Invictis Games I'm sure would get involved. Pretty sure Australian Army Rugby wear a Red Jersey. Pretty similar to the 2011 colour. Slightly lighter. I would have leaned into that for a one off.
Austrian Rugby army championship is on in Brisbane next week too - surely they can market the two together
 

dillyboy

Nev Cottrell (35)
I hope they beat Prussia this year.
Damn name the wrong way round....

Australia Army Rugby Championship

My brother's in the Army & is reffing at it so will probably head over to check it out.

Screenshot_20240418_100724_Chrome.jpg
 
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