Reds 2013
- Thread starter MrTimms
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USARugger
John Thornett (49)
About 17:30 into the game Cummins was on a rampage down the field and Cooper came across and stuffed him. Straight into the ground. He's actually had quite a bit of brilliant defensive play from fullback this year..
Shipperley was very poor all night. Had chances and either didn't take them or butchered them. Has he forgotten how to run into contact?
Cummins looked very good. I don't think he gets enough credit for how fast he is in space.
Shipperley was very poor all night. Had chances and either didn't take them or butchered them. Has he forgotten how to run into contact?
Cummins looked very good. I don't think he gets enough credit for how fast he is in space.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
Shipperley and Morahan have been hesitant going into contact. Sometimes this will be fine but at times they just need to pin there ears and go for it, if someone gets in your way try run over them. You may still be tackled but generally quick ball will result. Slowing down to step allows teams to get dominant hits on and gives defensive support time to arrive, often the result is at best slow ball or a turnover. Reds have been turning a lot of ball over lately and it does not seem to be the fault of the pigs. Both need to watch the Honey Badger.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Essentially, other than generally solid defence, at this juncture none of Taps, Shipps, A Fainga'a or Lance are producing much of substance and real skill for the Reds back line or general attack execution.
In fact, Davies is remarkably now something of a loner on his wing in bringing back 'the old' Reds' rapid agility, tight reads of Cooper ploys, and fearless pace through defenders. Diggers' bulldozer-with-FerrariV12 work is appearing (to me at least) more isolated and less integrated with general Reds' backs plays than used to be the case.
This is forcing a dangerously - and unsustainably - high burden of penetration work and go-forward on Genia and (even more) Cooper. And then in cycles this burden is also getting deflected back to the forwards for an excessive use of pick and drives, mauls, rushed one-outs near the try line, etc.
All this is compounded (or caused by?) a notable lack of the type of dazzling set pieces tries and truly well-rehearsed ensemble plays the Reds produced so well in 2010 and 2011 - go back over some of the Reds 2010 and 2011 backs-driven tries and the difference to the Reds' backs attack in most of this year's games is stark. Even simple lateral catch and pass moves through the backs' hands across the field appear fractionally slower and less well executed than much of 2011's best work.
All this in aggregate is one of major reasons why the Reds are struggling with try count in crucial plays, even with heaps of possession. And hence a poor clutch of BPs compared to, say, the Blues and Chiefs (the former with 2 whole wins worth of BPs!).
Other than that IMO both Lance or A Fainga'a are simply not good enough or fast enough as attacking backs for 2013's highest competitive standards, these emerging lapses in Reds' backs intensity and complexity are inexplicable to the outsider. Has J McKay lost interest, motivation and focus for some reason? Is he being distracted by an offer to move, or Link's departure perhaps? What on earth has happened to Taps' 2012 outstanding confidence, reaction speed and daring? Ditto Shipps, he's a shadow of his 2012 best, seems often deer-in-the-headlights-like at present. Lance seems to see his role as principally defence and the occasional support play, is his move from the Reds now lessening his desire to fire?
Link - as he's virtually admitting - needs to find a fix for these problems fast or we'll have trouble making the top 6 for the S15 pre qualifiers if we take a loss here or there and accumulate few BPs vs our near competitors for a top 6 position in the final 5/6 games to be played. And if QC (Quade Cooper) or WG goes down, the risks really magnify as they're carrying too much load which will on current evidence not be replaced.
It's very admirable and in a way bloody inspiring that the 2013 Reds are holding on so well and averting losses at every turn. But they've really only played three 'complete' and outstanding (in all facets of play) games in the 2012 and 2013 seasons, two were v the Chiefs and one was v the Tahs at home 2012. Yes, we've had some major injury issues to deal, but these days as a fan I am often feeling as though key elements of the total Reds' system are mysteriously distracted or are suffering odd lapses of the passion, skill and absolute hunger that took us to the heights not so long ago.
In fact, Davies is remarkably now something of a loner on his wing in bringing back 'the old' Reds' rapid agility, tight reads of Cooper ploys, and fearless pace through defenders. Diggers' bulldozer-with-FerrariV12 work is appearing (to me at least) more isolated and less integrated with general Reds' backs plays than used to be the case.
This is forcing a dangerously - and unsustainably - high burden of penetration work and go-forward on Genia and (even more) Cooper. And then in cycles this burden is also getting deflected back to the forwards for an excessive use of pick and drives, mauls, rushed one-outs near the try line, etc.
All this is compounded (or caused by?) a notable lack of the type of dazzling set pieces tries and truly well-rehearsed ensemble plays the Reds produced so well in 2010 and 2011 - go back over some of the Reds 2010 and 2011 backs-driven tries and the difference to the Reds' backs attack in most of this year's games is stark. Even simple lateral catch and pass moves through the backs' hands across the field appear fractionally slower and less well executed than much of 2011's best work.
All this in aggregate is one of major reasons why the Reds are struggling with try count in crucial plays, even with heaps of possession. And hence a poor clutch of BPs compared to, say, the Blues and Chiefs (the former with 2 whole wins worth of BPs!).
Other than that IMO both Lance or A Fainga'a are simply not good enough or fast enough as attacking backs for 2013's highest competitive standards, these emerging lapses in Reds' backs intensity and complexity are inexplicable to the outsider. Has J McKay lost interest, motivation and focus for some reason? Is he being distracted by an offer to move, or Link's departure perhaps? What on earth has happened to Taps' 2012 outstanding confidence, reaction speed and daring? Ditto Shipps, he's a shadow of his 2012 best, seems often deer-in-the-headlights-like at present. Lance seems to see his role as principally defence and the occasional support play, is his move from the Reds now lessening his desire to fire?
Link - as he's virtually admitting - needs to find a fix for these problems fast or we'll have trouble making the top 6 for the S15 pre qualifiers if we take a loss here or there and accumulate few BPs vs our near competitors for a top 6 position in the final 5/6 games to be played. And if QC (Quade Cooper) or WG goes down, the risks really magnify as they're carrying too much load which will on current evidence not be replaced.
It's very admirable and in a way bloody inspiring that the 2013 Reds are holding on so well and averting losses at every turn. But they've really only played three 'complete' and outstanding (in all facets of play) games in the 2012 and 2013 seasons, two were v the Chiefs and one was v the Tahs at home 2012. Yes, we've had some major injury issues to deal, but these days as a fan I am often feeling as though key elements of the total Reds' system are mysteriously distracted or are suffering odd lapses of the passion, skill and absolute hunger that took us to the heights not so long ago.
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Nice post RH and I agree.
I think the Reds could also benefit with one more ball-runner/line-bender in the forward pack. While Quirk-Schatz-Gill have been great in the opening stanza of the comp, they've fallen off a bit in the past few weeks so maybe it's time to rest two of them and give Robinson and/or Samo/Butler a start?
I think the Reds could also benefit with one more ball-runner/line-bender in the forward pack. While Quirk-Schatz-Gill have been great in the opening stanza of the comp, they've fallen off a bit in the past few weeks so maybe it's time to rest two of them and give Robinson and/or Samo/Butler a start?
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Reds are winning most. All are nail biting wins, by being incredibly close matches.
Love the Reds, love them winning but jeez my heart could do with a few serious bonus point wins
Love the Reds, love them winning but jeez my heart could do with a few serious bonus point wins
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Genia on 'frustrations' with current Reds' attack etc:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/drop-the-beat-and-make-it-sing-genia-20130507-2j54x.html
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/drop-the-beat-and-make-it-sing-genia-20130507-2j54x.html
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
GF, I think there's much in what you say. And it may be that our normal 3 loosies are having to assume just a bit too much of the attacking burden up near the oppo's line over and over again, and it's gradually wearing them down a bit.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Fantastic Will - look forward to 3 or 4 line breaks or real snipes from you culminating in 2 or 3 tries from the boys outside or inside you. Thats what we NEED
beauty!!!!!! Problem now solved !!!!!
beauty!!!!!! Problem now solved !!!!!
I think Scott Allen hits the nail on the head on the podcast. The Reds are using their forwards in a different way in 2013 than they have in the past and it has an effect on the rest of the team play. The exhaust or same way attack was basic but you had to work hard to defend it. As soon as someone doesn't get around the corner in defence holes open and Genia snipes. If they over commit then Cooper calls for the ball and they take advantage of it. It's pretty simple stuff but it makes a huge difference.
The other issue is that the outside backs are not firing. The centres don't seem to know what lines to run and the outside backs have no hunger to make ground, Digby excepted. People are saying Digby is less effective in 2013 but thats because he has 2-3 defenders marking him and he still tops the metres gained. If there were threats outside then he will get more space and make ground without a defender on his back.
I'd love to see the backs run first phase moves again that make the defence think and have to make decisions. Cooper can take advantage of them making the wrong ones and we'll find space.
I have been critical of Davies but the other options don't seem to offer anything different and at least he's lighting quick, maybe he is the answer. Also I'd love to see CFS in 13. he might make some mistakes but at least he'll have a go. That's were he needs to play for the betterment of Aust rugby.
The other issue is that the outside backs are not firing. The centres don't seem to know what lines to run and the outside backs have no hunger to make ground, Digby excepted. People are saying Digby is less effective in 2013 but thats because he has 2-3 defenders marking him and he still tops the metres gained. If there were threats outside then he will get more space and make ground without a defender on his back.
I'd love to see the backs run first phase moves again that make the defence think and have to make decisions. Cooper can take advantage of them making the wrong ones and we'll find space.
I have been critical of Davies but the other options don't seem to offer anything different and at least he's lighting quick, maybe he is the answer. Also I'd love to see CFS in 13. he might make some mistakes but at least he'll have a go. That's were he needs to play for the betterment of Aust rugby.
T
tranquility
Guest
For his age he is at an unbelievable point in his development - I hope he doesn't get too heavy ie; Morgan Tirinui. But I think it is fairly evident that he is more dynamic than Morgan was, let's just hope he develops the insight to the game that Morgan had.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
The Back row looks tired. We have put the same back row all year and they were on fire but have dwindled a bit which says they are tired. Baeu and Radiki should be brought in or onto the bench to add more back row energy. Only as a victim of team needs and not form Ed O'Donoghue can make way with Samo offering the lock option. We can then add another loosie in a 5:2 split.
Just give those fellas a break.
Just give those fellas a break.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
And into as good of a bloke.
RoffsChoice
Jim Lenehan (48)
How much better is FTA at 12!
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