Reds 2023

[LeCheese]

Cool. With just a bit of luck they spent some time sorting the kicking game and a shed load of work so we can present with a least a halfway competent line out. Otherwise it's just media fluff.

Of course, and no doubt they've been targeted. Media fluff or not, I think it further confirms that the QLDer identity is a core element of the team's culture, which is probably becoming a rarer occurence across professional sports teams today - given the discussions in here this week, I think that's interesting.

 

[Derpus]

I'm not suggesting its just from within Australia we need to recruit but from 2020 onwards here are experienced Super Rugby (or higher) players that other clubs have added to their squad:

Tetera Faulkner, Izaia Perese, Ruan Smith, Jed Holloway, Geoff Cridge, Ned Hanigan, Rahboni Warren-Yosayaco, Jamie Roberts, Harry Lloyd, Shambeckler Vui, Caderyn Neville, Isaak Fines, Nick White, Rod Ione, Jesse Mogg, CFS, Cam Clark, James Tuttle, Ryan Louwrens, Andrew Deegan, Joe Powell, Andrew Kellaway, Efi Ma'afu, Moses Sorovi, Tom Robertson, Santiago Medrano, Ryan McCauley, Jake McIntyre, Toni Pulu, Izak Rodda, Bayley Kuenzle, Manasa Mataele.

This is recruitment across all four other franchises, though. If you factor in all the losses across those other franchises as well its clearly a fairly significant net loss.

Reds could probably up their recruitment but it also seems to be a symptom of the drain overall. Super Rugby is probably now just a stepping stone comp to a Euro/Jap contract.

 

[Ignoto]

Interesting bit of timely insight given the discussion about the bulk of players being from the right side of Tweed

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531889815519633409

Hah, are any of the Reds even old enough to have watched that game. James would be the only one who is older than 30 yeah?

 

[ssmeaton]

Not sure if this has already been discussed but I I hope 2023 is Thorns last year at the Reds. IMO it's time for someone new with a fresh approach. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on this.

 

[brokendown]

Not sure if this has already been discussed but I I hope 2023 is Thorns last year at the Reds. IMO it's time for someone new with a fresh approach. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on this.

Thorn appears to me as the rugby version of Justin Langer

 

[Wilson]

So it looks like Ready and Hanson are both on the market for next year, do we bring one of them home to shore up our hooking stocks?

Neither are super exciting, but Ready does have potential if he's serious about coming good. Not sure there's been any evidence of that though. Alternatively Hanson could be a good old head to have around what is otherwise a relatively young and inexperienced set of hookers.

 

[dru]

So it looks like Ready and Hanson are both on the market for next year, do we bring one of them home to shore up our hooking stocks?

Neither are super exciting, but Ready does have potential if he's serious about coming good. Not sure there's been any evidence of that though. Alternatively Hanson could be a good old head to have around what is otherwise a relatively young and inexperienced set of hookers.

Ready isn't likely to be compatible with the Thorn approach. I wouldn't say no to Hanson but not excited either.

 

[PhilClinton]

Not sure if this has already been discussed but I I hope 2023 is Thorns last year at the Reds. IMO it's time for someone new with a fresh approach. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on this.

We need to take a step back though and assess the damage.

Taniela is one of probably three or four Aussie players who would make a World XV - he's missed the entire NZ portion of the tournament. That is a huge loss and unsettled the entire Reds gameplan.

The Reds also failed to backup JOC (James O'Connor) properly in my opinion. The bloke has been sponsored by gaffa tape for the last few seasons and signing Lynagh as the 2024+ replacement left a big short term gap.

Also losing essentially every hooker in the squad at one time or another has impacted things like the set piece, which is an area the Reds rely on heavily.

There is also a failing here in general by RA and the lack of money rugby currently has to spend on players. We can criticise the Reds for relying too heavily on a few key players - but what are the other options? The budget only allows for a couple of stars.

The Tahs are making headlines because they're essentially where the Reds were 3 years ago (maybe even better), they've got a new coach and a bunch of players who have stuck together, along with a key world class player. Until rugby regains some momentum in Australia, the same thing will happen to them. They will be high achievers for a couple of years before losing 6 blokes and having the same problems.

 

[SouthernX]

Not sure if this has already been discussed but I I hope 2023 is Thorns last year at the Reds. IMO it's time for someone new with a fresh approach. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on this.

I am not on board with this.

brad has a 1 year deal and has earned the right (excluding a wooden spoon next year) to least negotiate a longer term future going forward

 

[Jimmyjam]

The Tahs are making headlines because they're essentially where the Reds were 3 years ago (maybe even better), they've got a new coach and a bunch of players who have stuck together, along with a key world class player. Until rugby regains some momentum in Australia, the same thing will happen to them. They will be high achievers for a couple of years before losing 6 blokes and having the same problems.

I think the comparison you make regarding where the Tahs are now and the reds were 3yrs ago is completely incorrect... The Reds roster back then still had a big list of stars like Kerevi, BPA, Rodda, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Timu, Higginbotham, Naivalu etc. plus plenty of young stars like TT, Petaia. IMO just the right mix of youth and experience to win plenty of games against any opposition. The Tahs are made up of very few stars (Hooper, Bell and Perese possibly) but great coaching, culture and grit. Things the reds are clearly missing at the moment.. Chalk and cheese. You throw those ingredients and add the reds roster, they pretty much beat everyone..

 

[SouthernX]

I think the comparison you make regarding where the Tahs are now and the reds were 3yrs ago is completely incorrect... The Reds roster back then still had a big list of stars like Kerevi, BPA, Rodda, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Timu, Higginbotham, Naivalu etc. plus plenty of young stars like TT, Petaia. IMO just the right mix of youth and experience to win plenty of games against any opposition. The Tahs are made up of very few stars (Hooper, Bell and Perese possibly) but great coaching, culture and grit. Things the reds are clearly missing at the moment.. Chalk and cheese. You throw those ingredients and add the reds roster, they pretty much beat everyone..

some of those names you listed are not stars and far from it.

 

[sunnyboys]

I am not on board with this.

brad has a 1 year deal and has earned the right (excluding a wooden spoon next year) to least negotiate a longer term future going forward

I'm in the opposite camp. I acknowledge that he was able to bring positive change in the first few years, but definitely feel a plateau has been hit. and that was revealed in last years trans tasman games. This years games vs Aus teams were less emphatic than last years, whilst vs nz teams we havent seen any improvement. for me the 1 year deal is the last chance to show he can take them to the next step. i'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised next year, but my head tells me we've seen his best work already.

 

[Jimmyjam]

some of those names you listed are not stars and far from it.

ok, let's just call them Wallabies...

 

[PhilClinton]

I think the comparison you make regarding where the Tahs are now and the reds were 3yrs ago is completely incorrect... The Reds roster back then still had a big list of stars like Kerevi, BPA, Rodda, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Timu, Higginbotham, Naivalu etc. plus plenty of young stars like TT, Petaia. IMO just the right mix of youth and experience to win plenty of games against any opposition. The Tahs are made up of very few stars (Hooper, Bell and Perese possibly) but great coaching, culture and grit. Things the reds are clearly missing at the moment.. Chalk and cheese. You throw those ingredients and add the reds roster, they pretty much beat everyone..

I said three years ago mate so I've helped you out by posting the team that lost the Super Rugby AU Final to the Brumbies in 2020:

Campbell - still uncapped
Petaia - Wallaby
Paisami - uncapped
Stewart - still uncapped
Daugunu - uncapped
JOC (James O'Connor) - Wallaby
McDermott - uncapped
Wilson - uncapped
McReight - uncapped
Wright - Wallaby
LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) - Wallaby
Blyth - still uncapped
Taniela - Wallaby (best player)
BPA - uncapped
JP Smith - still uncapped

And the bench had literally zero Wallabies or blokes who would go on to be Wallabies.

Do some research. At the time of the SRAU final there was only 5 current Wallabies in the Reds with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Wright and Petaia playing a handful of tests between them.

 

[Jimmyjam]

2022 - 3 = 2019

Sorry mate, but I'm ok with very basic subtraction, perhaps you should refer to the 2019 squad instead.

 

[PhilClinton]

2022 - 3 = 2019

Sorry mate, but I'm ok with very basic subtraction, perhaps you should refer to the 2019 squad instead.

Seasons 20/21/22

Three years, three seasons.

We can argue semantics as much as you want - but my point was that the 2020 Reds team came on leaps and bounds with a core playing group of guys who have come through the QRU system - the same as the blokes currently playing for the Tahs.

And in the same way after SRAU 2020, 6 of those uncapped Reds went on to play for the Wallabies. Similar to how a number of the Tahs guys are going to get a cap either this year or next year, you would think.

The situations are quite similar.

 

[SouthernX]

ok, let's just call them Wallabies...

well firstly you said BPA. Who wasn’t a wallaby then. In fact he was picked out of NSW club rugby.

sure they might of been stars or developed into stars but ya spinning an argument based on those players peak pinnacles not accounting where they were in their career.

 

[RugbyReg]

2022 - 3 = 2019

Sorry mate, but I'm ok with very basic subtraction, perhaps you should refer to the 2019 squad instead.

evidently not....

 

[dru]

I am not on board with this.

brad has a 1 year deal and has earned the right (excluding a wooden spoon next year) to least negotiate a longer term future going forward

I'd be unhappy if a long term deal was negotiated if there isn't improvement next season. I'm happy to recognise what Thorn has provided but after 5 years, actually next season 6 years, it is enough to consider what is available.

Sure, if what is available doesn't stand ahead of Thorn then continue. Not a long term contract though.

 

[Ignoto]

Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water, I'd be wanting to explore why the Reds for two seasons in a row, were the best Australian team but capitulated against the Kiwi teams.

The Reds this season where not as good as last year, but they did get the results in the end. So, obviously something worked, why didn't it work against the Kiwis and what are they doing about it next year.

I feel some of the post game interviews Tate and Thorn have given could be shuffled around from multiple games and you wouldn't be able to say what interview comes from which game.