Reds 2023

[liquor box]

Out of interest (and apologies if I open a can of worms here) but which test coach hasn’t fallen out with or had personal views on players. Cheika, McKenzie, Eddie Jones, Dwyer, Deans, Greg Smith, McQueen, Connelly & Alan Jones we’re all accused at various times if either playing favourites and/or treating certain players unfairly. There are currently a group of players leaving for OS, at least partly due to not being in the national plans.

We’re going to have a very limited pool to pick from if we only consider coaches who get on with everyone.

There are some who would accuse the current coaching set up of not having favourite players but favourite teams when making selection choices.

 

[Dan54]

There are some who would accuse the current coaching set up of not having favourite players but favourite teams when making selection choices.

That is as stupid, I believe that coaches have favourite players, I did when I coached.
My favourite players were the ones that I thought would help team to win, and make me look better!!

 

[Cancelled Account]

That is as stupid, I believe that coaches have favourite players, I did when I coached.
My favourite players were the ones that I thought would help team to win, and make me look better!!

That’s a given, and if anyone disagrees, they are lying.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

What cattle do we have available next week? I have no idea when Mafi and Nasser are expected back

1.Hoopert
2.Mafi
3.Tupou
4.Smith
5.Blyth
6.Uru
7.Mcreight
8.Wilson
9.Mcdermott
10.O'Connor
11.Daugunu
12.Stewart
13.Paisami
14.Flook/Vunivalu
15.Petaia

Would be my starting side at full strength i think

If we dont get our hookers back, and Petaia is out then Blake back in or Faessler starts? when is Campbell back? If this week Campbell to fullback. If not Creighton or Grealy?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

What cattle do we have available next week? I have no idea when Mafi and Nasser are expected back

1.Hoopert
2.Mafi
3.Tupou
4.Smith
5.Blyth
6.Uru
7.Mcreight
8.Wilson
9.Mcdermott
10.O'Connor
11.Daugunu
12.Stewart
13.Paisami
14.Flook/Vunivalu
15.Petaia

Would be my starting side at full strength i think

If we dont get our hookers back, and Petaia is out then Blake back in or Faessler starts? when is Campbell back? If this week Campbell to fullback. If not Creighton or Grealy?

wrong thread - this is 2023

 

[PhilClinton]

Kalyn Ponga just re-signed a 5 year $5M deal with the Newcastle Knights.

Why is this relevant to the Reds 2023 Phil?

1. Because he was another Dolphins outside back possible recruit, now off the table, which leaves more money for Vuni.

2. It's another example of some of the ludicrous contracts the NRL put on the table. I think offering any player a 5 year deal is crazy to be honest.

I'm not trying to compare Ponga and Vunivalu in terms of ability or impact on the game. But based on those sort of contracts I don't think its farfetched the think the Dolphins would offer something in the range of 4 years $500k-$600k and if you're an injury prone winger, that's a hard deal to turn down. Not sure RA/QRU would table anything like that.

Wait and see what happens these next few months I guess!

 

[Derpus]

Ponga doesn't even seem that good IMO.

Fullback money =/= winger money in League.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Kalyn Ponga just re-signed a 5 year $5M deal with the Newcastle Knights.

Why is this relevant to the Reds 2023 Phil?

1. Because he was another Dolphins outside back possible recruit, now off the table, which leaves more money for Vuni.

2. It's another example of some of the ludicrous contracts the NRL put on the table. I think offering any player a 5 year deal is crazy to be honest.

I'm not trying to compare Ponga and Vunivalu in terms of ability or impact on the game. But based on those sort of contracts I don't think its farfetched the think the Dolphins would offer something in the range of 4 years $500k-$600k and if you're an injury prone winger, that's a hard deal to turn down. Not sure Rugby Australia/QRU would table anything like that.

Wait and see what happens these next few months I guess!

I reckon we work out Vunivalu’s hourly game rate in comparison to his contract. Great deal!!!!!!

 

[upthereds#!]

Kalyn Ponga just re-signed a 5 year $5M deal with the Newcastle Knights.

Why is this relevant to the Reds 2023 Phil?

1. Because he was another Dolphins outside back possible recruit, now off the table, which leaves more money for Vuni.

2. It's another example of some of the ludicrous contracts the NRL put on the table. I think offering any player a 5 year deal is crazy to be honest.

I'm not trying to compare Ponga and Vunivalu in terms of ability or impact on the game. But based on those sort of contracts I don't think its farfetched the think the Dolphins would offer something in the range of 4 years $500k-$600k and if you're an injury prone winger, that's a hard deal to turn down. Not sure Rugby Australia/QRU would table anything like that.

Wait and see what happens these next few months I guess!

Technically not a 5 year deal.

It was Ponga confirming the last 2 years of his current deal - which he had the option to get out of PLUS 3 years after that.

But yes - a long time. Hooper is on a 5 year deal.

 

[PhilClinton]

Technically not a 5 year deal.

It was Ponga confirming the last 2 years of his current deal - which he had the option to get out of PLUS 3 years after that.

But yes - a long time. Hooper is on a 5 year deal.

Yes good point.

The Hooper deal is a bit of an anomaly in rugby, although will likely become the norm for players like Taniela if we are going to keep them in the game.

I don't necessarily have a problem with 4-5 year deals, as long as the final year of the deal is a team option. There is a lot of footy to be played between year 1 of the contract and year 5. There aren't many players across any code who can hold their form for that long.

 

[Derpus]

Yes good point.

The Hooper deal is a bit of an anomaly in rugby, although will likely become the norm for players like Taniela if we are going to keep them in the game.

I don't necessarily have a problem with 4-5 year deals, as long as the final year of the deal is a team option. There is a lot of footy to be played between year 1 of the contract and year 5. There aren't many players across any code who can hold their form for that long.

4-5 year contracts are pretty common in Football. Everything Rugby seems to be going down the same path carved by European kickball.

 

[upthereds#!]

Yes good point.

The Hooper deal is a bit of an anomaly in rugby, although will likely become the norm for players like Taniela if we are going to keep them in the game.

I don't necessarily have a problem with 4-5 year deals, as long as the final year of the deal is a team option. There is a lot of footy to be played between year 1 of the contract and year 5. There aren't many players across any code who can hold their form for that long.

They are working well in NZ - I think emracing a long term deal (but with sabbaticals) is the best way to keep top tier talent available with competitive contracts and without removing current selection restrictions

It frees up money to keep the middle tier who we are losing like crazy but don't warrant flexibile contracting options.

Tupou for example
He is under contract for 2023 (World cup) SO what's next?

Option a) approx 6mil over 4 years @ 1.5/yr to beat the Japanese offers and keep him.
Pro - he's available 100% to wallabies and his Super Rugby team through 2024, 25 (Lions tour), 26 and 27 (world cup)
Con - hurts $$. Lose contracting $ for lower and middle tier players.
- he doesn't get the different experience and rest he reportedly wants.

option b) approx 3 mil over 4 years @ ave. 750k/year and allow him sabbaticals in 2024 and 2026 in japan. Most likely more heavily weighted in Super Rugby available seasons when adding their contibution.
pro- he's available 100% to wallabies through 2024, 25 (lions tour) 26 and 27 (world cup)
- he still gets his different experience, his rest, and his 6 total (assuming japan will still give him his 1.5/season)
- alot cheaper for RA and Super Rugby team
- allows a shift in funds to maintain lower and middle tier players
con - not available for Super Rugby team in 2024 & 26.

Option B seems better

I know I'd rather have him for 25 & 27 @ The Reds (hopefully it's us) and 24, 25, 26 & 27 for the Wallabies, than potentially not at all.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

They are working well in NZ - I think emracing a long term deal (but with sabbaticals) is the best way to keep top tier talent available with competitive contracts and without removing current selection restrictions

It frees up money to keep the middle tier who we are losing like crazy but don't warrant flexibile contracting options.

Tupou for example
He is under contract for 2023 (World cup) SO what's next?

Option a) approx 6mil over 4 years @ 1.5/yr to beat the Japanese offers and keep him.
Pro - he's available 100% to wallabies and his Super Rugby team through 2024, 25 (Lions tour), 26 and 27 (world cup)
Con - hurts $$. Lose contracting $ for lower and middle tier players.
- he doesn't get the different experience and rest he reportedly wants.

option b) approx 3 mil over 4 years @ ave. 750k/year and allow him sabbaticals in 2024 and 2026 in japan. Most likely more heavily weighted in Super Rugby available seasons when adding their contibution.
pro- he's available 100% to wallabies through 2024, 25 (lions tour) 26 and 27 (world cup)
- he still gets his different experience, his rest, and his 6 total (assuming japan will still give him his 1.5/season)
- alot cheaper for Rugby Australia and Super Rugby team
- allows a shift in funds to maintain lower and middle tier players
con - not available for Super Rugby team in 2024 & 26.

Option B seems better

I know I'd rather have him for 25 & 27 @ The Reds (hopefully it's us) and 24, 25, 26 & 27 for the Wallabies, than potentially not at all.

All sounds very good my only question is if he gets big time busted while on a sabbatical ie major knee reconstruction etc does the contract back in Aus have to be paid?
Lots of technical legal type things to be thought out.

 

[PhilClinton]

All sounds very good my only question is if he gets big time busted while on a sabbatical ie major knee reconstruction etc does the contract back in Aus have to be paid?
Lots of technical legal type things to be thought out.

Yes it is an interesting situation.

It is also why I think the Japanese teams won't be offering the insane contracts to every Australian star player (although the Banks alleged contract disputes my theory).

Prior to Australia embracing a new selection policy, for example back when Kerevi was signed, Suntory expected him to be fully committed to their cause and paid him accordingly. For a lot of blokes who sign up to play over there, it's about the money and the lifestyle.

Now Australia has changed that policy, it opens up situations where Kerevi could be injured playing for the Wallabies. Suntory never agreed to those terms when he first sign a contract with them, as far as they knew, he could never play for the Wallabies whilst playing for them. I think that changes his value.

 

[PhilClinton]

They are working well in NZ - I think emracing a long term deal (but with sabbaticals) is the best way to keep top tier talent available with competitive contracts and without removing current selection restrictions

It will be interesting to see how many players consider themselves worthy of a special flexible deal.

The flip side is if we start using that model as the baseline for keeping top tier players onshore for at least majority of the contract, are the overseas markets going to be flooded with too many blokes from Australia looking for $1M+ pay days for a season? Then suddenly a few start missing out because those contracts aren't warranted.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

It will be interesting to see how many players consider themselves worthy of a special flexible deal.

The flip side is if we start using that model as the baseline for keeping top tier players onshore for at least majority of the contract, are the overseas markets going to be flooded with too many blokes from Australia looking for $1M+ pay days for a season? Then suddenly a few start missing out because those contracts aren't warranted.

I agree
the supply v demand curve will get a work out.
IMHO their will be more players than contracts ($1m+) coupled with the flexibility players seem to want, the clubs will then be ready , willing and able to drive down the pay rates.

 

[upthereds#!]

All sounds very good my only question is if he gets big time busted while on a sabbatical ie major knee reconstruction etc does the contract back in Aus have to be paid?
Lots of technical legal type things to be thought out.

Whatever system they used would alreayd be in place (Like Hooper)
Not for us simpletons to determine that level of complexity!

 

[upthereds#!]

Let's not forget that Japanese teams are capped on how many foreign test players they are allowed and the UK allowance is being reduced, along with their cap.

It's the middle tier heading overseas we can't afford to lose for Super Rugby success, so therefore we must be flexible with the 'special' talent required for Wallaby success.

 

[liquor box]

They are working well in NZ - I think emracing a long term deal (but with sabbaticals) is the best way to keep top tier talent available with competitive contracts and without removing current selection restrictions

It frees up money to keep the middle tier who we are losing like crazy but don't warrant flexibile contracting options.

Tupou for example
He is under contract for 2023 (World cup) SO what's next?

Option a) approx 6mil over 4 years @ 1.5/yr to beat the Japanese offers and keep him.
Pro - he's available 100% to wallabies and his Super Rugby team through 2024, 25 (Lions tour), 26 and 27 (world cup)
Con - hurts $$. Lose contracting $ for lower and middle tier players.
- he doesn't get the different experience and rest he reportedly wants.

option b) approx 3 mil over 4 years @ ave. 750k/year and allow him sabbaticals in 2024 and 2026 in japan. Most likely more heavily weighted in Super Rugby available seasons when adding their contibution.
pro- he's available 100% to wallabies through 2024, 25 (lions tour) 26 and 27 (world cup)
- he still gets his different experience, his rest, and his 6 total (assuming japan will still give him his 1.5/season)
- alot cheaper for Rugby Australia and Super Rugby team
- allows a shift in funds to maintain lower and middle tier players
con - not available for Super Rugby team in 2024 & 26.

Option B seems better

I know I'd rather have him for 25 & 27 @ The Reds (hopefully it's us) and 24, 25, 26 & 27 for the Wallabies, than potentially not at all.

I wonder if the Reds are still linked to Panasonic Wild Knights? Option B may be a good idea so the Reds can keep him.

Queensland Reds partner with Japanese powerhouse Panasonic Wild Knights

In an exciting development for the future growth and alignment between Queensland and Japanese Rugby, the Queensland Reds have today announced an alliance relationship with Top League side the Panasonic Wild Knights.

reds.rugby

The bilateral alliance relationship between the Queensland Reds and Panasonic Wild Knights will see an international exchange program in place for players and staff, as well as youth development through Rugby academies, universities and high schools in the respective states.

 

[LeCheese]

I wonder if the Reds are still linked to Panasonic Wild Knights? Option B may be a good idea so the Reds can keep him.

Queensland Reds partner with Japanese powerhouse Panasonic Wild Knights

In an exciting development for the future growth and alignment between Queensland and Japanese Rugby, the Queensland Reds have today announced an alliance relationship with Top League side the Panasonic Wild Knights.

reds.rugby

https://reds.rugby/news/queensland-...wild-knights-postpone-inaugural-match-2021929 good call - seems like the relationship is ongoing