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Returns from injury

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
"Deans was hopeful that forwards Wycliff Palu, Tatafu Polota-Nau and James Slipper would come under consideration for the final Tri Nations Test against New Zealand in Brisbane on August 27 and that winger Drew Mitchell would also be back running when the Wallabies returned from South Africa.
He said outside centre Rob Horne was returning to club rugby this weekend and remained in the World Cup mix along with midfielder Berrick Barnes, who made a successful comeback for Sydney University on Saturday."

So lots of returns over the next month. Some pick themselves. Others not so sure.
Assuming they are all fit but short on game time how does that modify your 22? Does super 15 form eclipse lack of recent game time? Are the pool matches enough to get match fitness? Who's in, who's out?
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Mitchell said on the commentary with Fox last night that he was turning out for Randwick, I thought he said next week but I had got up to go to the fridge so could be wrong.
 

qwerty51

George Gregan (70)
What about Burgess? He would be pretty close I'd think, broken hands usually take 4-5 weeks.

I'd put most of them straight into the bench after a few club hit-outs. Especially TPN, Burgess, Slipper and Palu. They're desperately needed. Who knows what to do with a fully fit Mitchell, you can't put him on the bench.
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
Mitchell said on the commentary with Fox last night that he was turning out for Randwick, I thought he said next week but I had got up to go to the fridge so could be wrong.

If he makes it back by the end of the 3N (and I hear he is on track) Deans surely would have to put Ioane, JOC and Schmoo all in the run on side. Best players on the park and all that. So one will have to move to the centres.
Time to try JOC at 12. Put McCabe on the wing - hell they can swap if its a disaster. Now is the time to find out.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I think we may well see that, although probably not reflected by the numbers on their backs.
 

farva

Cyril Towers (30)
Barnes, Palu (he either starts or isnt there) and Horne would be in the extended squad, the others all onto the bench.
Mitchell would start though, at the expense of McCabe (who would go to the bench)

So:

Kepu, Moore, Alexander, Horwill, Slipper, Elsom, Pocock, McCalman, Genia, Cooper, Ioane, JOC, AAC, Mitchell, Beale
TPN, Slipper, Sharpe, Higgenbotham, Burgess, McCabe, Fa'ainga
 

Seb V

Mark Loane (55)
I'm also pretty keen for Burgess' return. I don't think Phipps is a good enough back-up for Genia and Burgess just adds so much intensity off the bench. He doesnt quite have the passing game or control things the way Genia does but on his game he adds something else, great defender and a lot of passion. We really do need him, especially if something happens to Genia.
 

farva

Cyril Towers (30)
I'm also pretty keen for Burgess' return. I don't think Phipps is a good enough back-up for Genia and Burgess just adds so much intensity off the bench. He doesnt quite have the passing game or control things the way Genia does but on his game he adds something else, great defender and a lot of passion. We really do need him, especially if something happens to Genia.

I like Burgess as an impact bench player. He is a player that doesnt control the backline true. But what he is very good at is the sniping run.
What that will mean is that the defence will sit a little deeper just in case he does that meaning our backs will have a little more space. Late in the game when things start opening up, that will be vital.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I am not keen to see the return of Burgess. Cooper will be of no use if he has to jump to catch the passes or pick them up from his ankles or even run back 10 emtres to get the ball. Cooper also requires speed of clearance. Burgess in the last 3 years has had his chances and as with Giteau just hasn't improved, and though I blame coaching for a lot of this the lions share resides with the player.

Phipps in two tests has improved immmensely with the key being the pack actually gave him a modicum of protection against the Saffas. Unless he was buried in the ruck himself Phipps made it to every breakdown and cleared the ball with speed and accuracy (in most cases). IMO the only point Burgess is better than Phipps in is defence. I have for two years said Burgess is the best defensive 9 in the world and that remains, but as the Tahs proved you don't win competitions by limitting your oppositions attack only, you do have to score points and to that end fast ball from the breakdown to Cooper to distribute or attack is essential. Play Burgess and Cooper may as well go and sit on the bench for Giteau.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
If we are in a tight game genia will play 80, if we are chasing a game genia will play 80. The half back reserve is an injury replacement only not an impact reserve. I believe so much rides on genia being fit that we may as well have gits on the bench as his cover and hope genia doesn't go down or at least if he dies it is only for 5 or so at the end.

(oops that was meant to be does not dies)
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
In that case, Scotty, we can still give Burgess a bench spot as I don't think Gits is up to playing half back despite past deeds for the Wobs in that position, and we can get Whittaker to pass on his nickname Anthems to Burgo then...as Burgo won't get a run at all whilst Genia is there for the full 80 each time...
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I think it would be folly to rely on Genia for 80 min. In quite a few games this year for the Reds (especially the very high intensity games v Crusaders, Stormers, Bulls and Tahs) he went down in the second half with cramp from about the 65th minute onwards. Burgess is too much like shutting up shop and defending a lead (if they have one to defend) IMO.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Burgess came on for Genia in HK when we were chasing the AB's & was brilliant he really lifted the tempo of the game for the Wallabies & definitely made a positive impact.

Mitchell said on the commentary with Fox last night that he was turning out for Randwick, I thought he said next week but I had got up to go to the fridge so could be wrong.

No in 3-4 weeks he'll have a run for Randwick against Sydney Uni is the target match. Mitchell is in camp with the wallabies this week.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
you have to be kidding dont you gnostic to believe phipps offered any spark whatsoever, coming on with 20 to go against the saffas B team the ball slowed down. you say the difference between phipps and burgess is the pass, with defence burgos only + but you ignore his running game the energy lift he gives and his backing up of second phase ball. Genia is the best halfback in Aus but as i brought up in the other thread we have a bench that ads no spark whatsoever to any game. burgess ads that, again not saying he is better than genia but there are times when fresh legs are needed.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
"Deans was hopeful that forwards Wycliff Palu, Tatafu Polota-Nau and James Slipper would come under consideration for the final Tri Nations Test against New Zealand in Brisbane on August 27

If they do I'd have them all in the starting 15 & then replace them after 30 minutes as TPN & Slipper being front rowers can come back on for injuries.

And if Deans goes with a 5-2 spilt all series then we can afford to give Cliffy an early shower.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
you have to be kidding dont you gnostic to believe phipps offered any spark whatsoever, coming on with 20 to go against the saffas B team the ball slowed down. you say the difference between phipps and burgess is the pass, with defence burgos only + but you ignore his running game the energy lift he gives and his backing up of second phase ball. Genia is the best halfback in Aus but as i brought up in the other thread we have a bench that ads no spark whatsoever to any game. burgess ads that, again not saying he is better than genia but there are times when fresh legs are needed.

That is the problem. When and if he gets there. Second phase for the Tahs sometimes he didn't get there. As far as I'm concerned Phipps has the basic attributes to be a very good 9 if he is developed properly and he has been getting that time this year. Burgess like Giteau has been tried again and again for occassional success. I can see the arguments for Burgess, I just don't accept they make a better argument than quick accurate ball from the ruck which to date Burgess has delivered in one test match, England 2009. So no I am not kidding.
 

Seb V

Mark Loane (55)
IMO the only point Burgess is better than Phipps in is defence. I have for two years said Burgess is the best defensive 9 in the world and that remains, but as the Tahs proved you don't win competitions by limitting your oppositions attack only, you do have to score points and to that end fast ball from the breakdown to Cooper to distribute or attack is essential. Play Burgess and Cooper may as well go and sit on the bench for Giteau.

I would argue the only good thing in the Tahs attack was Mitchell and BURGRESS! He hardly limits the attack - I see burgess as an attacking halfback more then a defensive one. IMO Phipps is an okay halfback, he has a great pass and does everything else good but not outstanding. Burgess has a few flaws but he has outstanding attributes that phipps does not have; his defence is world-class, He offloads well, breaks the line, snipes well, running game is very good, clears rucks very quickly (maybe not as clean as genia and phibbs but he gets the ball quick when he wants too), He has the X-Factor that phipps does not have. If Burgess' had a cleaner pass he would be pushing Genia pretty closely for a starting spot!
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Mitchell should stay on the bench when he is back. The centres looked good on saturday and I'm not convinced JOC is the best man for the centre position outside QC yet. If BB comes back he deserves to be there and MCCabe to bench. Mitchell and Burgess on the bench would be great at the back of the game. Add TPN and the bench looks like it would have enough impact that there shouldn't be a noticeable drop in performance.
 
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