Rugby Administration - Please Rant here

[Slim 293]

Rugby is at heart an amateur game in Australia. It never has earned enough widespread popularity to be a fully professional code.


And it never will, unless something truly catyclismic happens.


We need to play to our strengths, not to our hopes and dreams. We are never ever going to be widely popular. We are never ever going to have enough broadast revenue to support "grassroots" rugby.



The sooner we face up to that, the sooner we can work to find creative solutions.

No words...........

 

[Leo86]

The next CEO needs to be a rugby person, first and foremost, at least in the sense that he or she understands the game, and the inherent issues that are totally outside the control of the ARU. Like the Laws of the Game.


I am coming to the view that the only comparative advantage we have as a sport in this country is actually our "elite" image.



A marketing genius needs be set loose to devise a campaign. By hook or by crook, we have to convince more and more people that (a) it is worthwhile trying to understand and appreciate the game and b) that rugby is a good game for their sons and daughters to play.


Given that the game is basically only shown on cable, and also given that by far the most playing opportunities exist in silvertail schools and suburbs, like it or not, that is now the base. It needs to be consolidated, and built upon.



We are in a corner, fighting for our survival, no doubt about that. We need to fight smart, and we need to swallow some unpalatable truths.


Try this test. In your workplace, how many people have an active interest in the game? Has the percentage changed over the years?


Ditto with your neighbours.


The game itself is an acquired taste. Some people (like my wife) take to it quickly. Some people (like a couple of leaguie neighbours of mine, who decided to have a look at it because I like it) give up because they do not understand it, and/or do not like it and/or do not care about it enough to tune in regularly.

Yes people i work with have an active interest, this year i even kicked off a tipping comp. And yes certainly the percentage has increased, i stated previously in another thread that rugby in WA was perceived as a foreign concept, these days i love going to work and being able to talk rugby

 

[BLR]

Rugby is at heart an amateur game in Australia. It never has earned enough widespread popularity to be a fully professional code.


And it never will, unless something truly catyclismic happens.


We need to play to our strengths, not to our hopes and dreams. We are never ever going to be widely popular. We are never ever going to have enough broadast revenue to support "grassroots" rugby.


The sooner we face up to that, the sooner we can work to find creative solutions.

I think you jumped the shark.

 

[Brumby Runner]

See this is the thing: the political minefield IS THE ISSUE.

Too many people in rugby think that their idea is the one that should win. None of those ideas are particularly disruptive to the status quo, or even innovative for Australian Rugby.

GPS: WE ARE THE BREEDING GROUND FOR THE NEXT GENERATION!

Well, to a degree. In that you have money to throw at rugby and not many other people do. But to be a "competition" you have to be "competitive" and that means having more than 6 schools, and more than 1-2 of those being contenders in a given year.

GPS has also contracted since the golden days. And doesn't play regular fixtures against other schools competitions or even individuals.

Narrowing the base never helps.


Poido et al: PREMIER RUGBY MADE WALLABIES FOR DECADES SO IT MUST BE THE ANSWER!

Club rugby WAS good but it ignores the fact that Shute Shield in particular has suffered from contraction, and this ridiculous belief that NSW Rugby/Sydney Rugby is somehow helping Western Sydney by beating the shit out of Parramatta and Penrith every week (First Grade for both clubs shipped 130+ points to bugger all on the weekend).

Like the schools setup, senior club rugby has contracted sharply in terms of overall quality. And quite frankly, 4 Grades is ridiculous when you're also trying to support 3 Grades of Colts. Penrith can meet neither criteria.

What these two things have in common is a narrower base, and creation of a real haves/have nots scenario wherein the people in power build on it, and the people without simply suffer through it, then leave.

They're also self-serving, protectionist, and put the game of rugby behind other priorities.

That simply can't happen any more.

The Kiwis reformed their domestic comp, decided that the All Blacks were the top of the pile, and geared everything to success.

They also went through the financial realities of spraying money everywhere like a mad woman's shit, and made sure that couldn't happen any more.






I agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

Except the bit about salary - one of the issues with rugby politics (like normal politics) is that a CEO has to be someone who already has success and therefore doesn't need the salary. Its how people at the "top" think.

Making a lot of sense with this post Pfitzy. On the matter of spraying money around like a man with no arms, it does need to be curbed and complemented with a return to the policy of Wallabies can only be selected from current Super Rugby players (or whatever replaced Super Rugby in time). That is the only way the top players will remain here if there is less money available for contracts.

 

[Pfitzy]

Making a lot of sense with this post Pfitzy. On the matter of spraying money around like a man with no arms, it does need to be curbed and complemented with a return to the policy of Wallabies can only be selected from current Super Rugby players (or whatever replaced Super Rugby in time). That is the only way the top players will remain here if there is less money available for contracts.

I'm experiencing a microcosm of this with my club - trying to change this culture with no-pay-no-play is extremely difficult when guys have pretty much been allowed to do as they please.

If player agents come to the ARU and say "my client deserves X" then those hopeless suit-and-tie fuckers need to sack up and say "well we believe they deserve less than that and maybe if they're good enough to be selected, they'll earn X"

The problem of course is guaranteeing RUPA a slice of the pie at a certain size. I have no problem with compensation, but they should be in it with a different mindset.

 

[Mr Doug]

I don't wish to have "a rant", just add a few "observations".
Not knowing any of the management team personally, I am unable to share the 'enthusiasm' for them displayed by some here. I heard a radio interview with Cameron Clyne yesterday, and I have to say I was neither 'impressed', nor 'inspired'! (Too many "Ahs" for me)..... Given his $7.7m pay packet, I must be missing something!!
Multiple directorships (up to five), plus day-jobs, plus with at least one, commitments on the "speaking circuit", plus his involvement with Bond Uni, you have to ask "how much time do you have to put into the ARU?!

Also, do such qualifications as "Women's Issues Advocate", or another who is a "Gender Equality Expert" contribute to helping us beat the Kiwis on the Rugby field??!!

 

[Braveheart81]

Multiple directorships (up to five), plus day-jobs, plus with at least one, commitments on the "speaking circuit", plus his involvement with Bond Uni, you have to ask "how much time do you have to put into the ARU?!

Also, do such qualifications as "Women's Issues Advocate", or another who is a "Gender Equality Expert" contribute to helping us beat the Kiwis on the Rugby field??!!

I think you'd be hard pressed finding a person with the necessary gravitas to be Chairman of the ARU board that isn't very busy. If they are not in great demand from other areas of society, they're probably not the right person for the job.

As far as the women on the ARU board, they're all experienced and respected in a range of areas. Considering half the potential fanbase are women and women's rugby is the fastest growing area in the sport, it makes sense to have women who can add some expertise in those areas on the board.

I'm unsure how and of the board members are specifically tasked with helping the Wallabies on the rugby field. The last thing we need are more former Wallabies on the board.

 

[wamberal]

I knew a chap who was on the Board for some years. I rang him one day, because I had heard that quite a good league player was interested in switching codes, I knew his father.


I rang my friend and he said that he and the other directors never ever involved themselves in anything to do with the actual running of the teams, especially not recruitment or selection.


That was then, of course. But from my involvement in professional sport, the last thing the actual performers and their coaches etc need is for some suit to start telling them how to do it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Some might not be aware but the structure of the ARU board went through significant change after the Arbib report in Corporate Governance.

The ARU did away with the state based nominees to the board which substantially reduced the power of NSW and Queensland.

They have a nominations committee to help with new board appointments and to measure board performance. They are Peter Heerey, Josephine Sukkar and John Massey.

Heerey was initially appointed by the board and the latter two were elected by the ARU members.

If you look at the AFL and Rugby League Commissions, their members are a mix of former players, prominent business people and often someone from another walk of life (often former or current military). It's pretty similar to what the ARU has.

If you sacked the entire board and started again I think you'd end up with a similar mix of people.

 

[kiap]

 

[The Honey Badger]

I see the direction of my new thread.

Gone to Shit

 

[Mr Doug]

I think you'd be hard pressed finding a person with the necessary gravitas to be Chairman of the ARU board that isn't very busy. If they are not in great demand from other areas of society, they're probably not the right person for the job.

As far as the women on the ARU board, they're all experienced and respected in a range of areas. Considering half the potential fanbase are women and women's rugby is the fastest growing area in the sport, it makes sense to have women who can add some expertise in those areas on the board.

I'm unsure how and of the board members are specifically tasked with helping the Wallabies on the rugby field. The last thing we need are more former Wallabies on the board.

Braveheart, I can't ague with any of your points raised here, however, what is painfully obvious, is that this "amalgam" of Directors and management does not appear to be working.
Labouriously reading through the pages of posts reveals a disturbing number of our members who are dissatisfied with the ARU's performance, in relation to the Super Rugby "mess". When you see long-term members making statements suggesting that they will 'abandon' Super Rugby, it saddens all of us who are true believers!!
Would you like the ARU management to be in charge of your Superannuation Fund??!!

I guess what I'm asking is "does the current ARU management have a 'social Licence' to run Rugby Union in this country", or to put it another way, does the board have the trust of the Australian Rugby community??

 

[Leo86]

or to put it another way, does the board have the trust of the Australian Rugby community??

Nope

 

[lou75]

Of course the SA Rugby has a plan B. Only the ARF*U leaves its clubs high and dry

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...2/news-story/e4f213ae0bd67b2a3b37d5ff821f688c

footnote reference: * F^%$ing

 

[Pfitzy]

Labouriously reading through the pages of posts reveals a disturbing number of our members who are dissatisfied with the ARU's performance, in relation to the Super Rugby "mess".

Laboriously reading through this place will also convince you that its all a NSW plot!

Now, I'm as pissed off as anyone in Australian Rugby right now about the situation, but I take Braveheart's point this way: who else is going to run it?

The sad truth, which I'm just coming to realise, is that asking the ARU to "put a broom through the place" is like asking Federal Politicians to vote for a pay cut.

• The people at the top layers of are all of this ilk.
• They're all going to fit these profiles.
• They're all there because they know the right people, or went to the right school, or
• They worked for the right company under the right boss at some point.

None of them are really going to appreciate the struggles of a small club, or a large club in a small rugby state, or the weekly/monthly/yearly struggle to put something together and try and turn a small profit each year.

They don't see the encroachment of soccer, league, and AFL as anything but missed sponsor dollars, because their old alma mater is doing just fine thanks, having beaten [Business Rival]'s school/club this year and last.

Therefore things are quite healthy.

Go read the Schoolboy rugby thread - its the same pissing contest and blame game, over and over again. Who's stealing what talent. Who has undue influence over selection. Who at which school is doing the dirty behind closed doors.

As a Club President (did I mention that? ) I'm trying to build a very positive relationship with Subbies, the refs, and other clubs first and foremost, because I have enough battles just getting a team on the park.

If there was less of the political shite we'd have a much happier game.

But the problem is, during times of crisis, there is a lot of finger-pointing, and not much innovation or appetite for real change.

Why? Because the culture at this point is to make yourself as comfortable as possible, while implementing an idea that is just a watered-down version of what you promised. Change is hard, and you don't want to upset the apple cart that is paying you handsomely.

After all, it worked for the previous five monkeys in the cage...

 

[Pfitzy]

So, back to First Principles - and forgetting about "fixing" the professional level, because its an outcome of everything else, not a process:

How does segregation of schools competitions within Sydney help rugby for player, referee, and coach development?

How does the competition between clubs and schools for juniors help rugby for player, referee and coach development?

Where does the Olympic status of 7s rugby fit into the development pathway for wider engagement of the public?

What programs can we institute to ensure club administration - at ALL levels - can be easily replicated, handed over, and followed to ease the strain on individuals?

How do we de-politicise the environment and concentrate on the ultimate goal of increasing participation and support of rugby?

Answers in bullet point form by COB today. I'll submit mine below.

 

[Twoilms]

^^^^^Kiap,

Your brilliant post forgot the final stage of the information process, positive re-enforcement. Joe's friends and associates are all likely of the same or similar opinions. They then positively reinforce the shit he churns out onto social media, further legitimizing his retarded opinions.

Remarkably, having access to the total sum of human knowledge at our fingertips (internet) makes our thinking insular rather than expansive.

 

[Pfitzy]

Ta-dahhhhh!

How does segregation of schools competitions within Sydney help rugby for player, referee, and coach development?

• It doesn't
• So fuck it off, starting with the Sydney basin
• Implement a competition structure on a Divisional level if needed
• Create a sharing culture, where stronger/larger schools assist weaker/smaller
• Make the competition longer to accommodate this change
• Ensure referees are compensated for their time, but in return are given a diverse range of matches - the best refs should occasionally get the "worst" matches, and have a Q&A session afterwards. Video footage would assist here, and its cheaper than ever to create and share.

How does the competition between clubs and schools for juniors help rugby for player, referee and coach development?

• It doesn't
• So fuck it off, starting with the Sydney basin
• Private schools have a role to play in wider development of rugby, not continued narrowing of the base
• Therefore, private schools should be providing educational material for on-field development, as their model is significantly different to club structures in terms of recruitment.
• Ensure the regionalisation of junior club competitions is sound
• Task and fund successful junior clubs with creating procedures that can be shared out for on- and off-field operations.
• Clubs should be able to provide something of equal or greater value to private schools by Year Three of this plan, given their strength is in a diversity that private schools lack.

Where does the Olympic status of 7s rugby fit into the development pathway for wider engagement of the public?

• Piece of piss - 7s is lower primary school and junior high school
• Introduce XVs in parallel as of third year high school with full scrum and lineout for the tall/fat kids
• Ensures we have two streams running, with changeover available for 7s/XVs
• Create a Rugby 10s program for smaller schools.
• Preserve 7s players throughout schooling years.
• Encourage clubs to run 7s program in off-season, with a focus on growing women's rugby.

What programs can we institute to ensure club administration - at ALL levels - can be easily replicated, handed over, and followed to ease the strain on individuals?

• Comes back to the information sharing above
• Programs for engagement and reward of volunteers through ARU partners.
• Apps for easy sharing of information among clubs - not just traditional social media channels.

How do we de-politicise the environment and concentrate on the ultimate goal of increasing participation and support of rugby?

• Pfitzy for CEO. Two years, $200K per annum + expenses
• Carte blanche.
• The competition is NOT other rugby entities; it is other codes of football.
• ARU "Participation Fees" to be abolished. This is a partnership, not a dictatorship.
• Engagement of referees needs to be open in terms of feedback and clarity on how referees are appointed, run the game, and are assessed.
• Referees can no longer be seen as The Enemy.

 

[wamberal]

Vote 1 Pfitzy.


Lower taxes, more services. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Pfitzy]

Hearts and minds, people.