RWC 2011 - Bitch, moan and discuss - Referees and Law Discussions

[Lee Grant]

Use this thread to discuss the merits or otherwise of referees at the RWC - and also to discuss points of law that arise during the tournament.

The referees for the RWC are:
* Wayne Barnes (England)
* Romain Poite (France)
* Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)
* Craig Joubert (South Africa)
* Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa)
* George Clancy (Ireland)
* Nigel Owens (Wales)
* Alain Rolland (Ireland)
* Dave Pearson (England)
* Steve Walsh (Australia)

The 2011 Rugby World Cup Assistant Referees are:
* Chris Pollock (New Zealand) - reserve referee
* Jerome Garces (France) - reserve referee
* Simon McDowell (Ireland)
* Tim Hayes (Wales)
* Stuart Terheege (England)
* Vinny Munro (New Zealand)
* Carlo Damasco (Italy)

The 2011 Rugby World Cup TMO Panel is:
* Graham Hughes (England)
* Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)
* Matt Goddard (Australia)
* Giulio De Santis (Italy)

 

[Jay]

Ok, I'll start.

Why is Kaplan there and not Mark Lawrence!?

 

[Richard D. James]

Great idea for a thread. Keeping the match threads/general discussion threads clear of this stuff.

One hopes this thread will provide valuable discussion about the laws of our game.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Ok, I'll start.

Why is Kaplan there and not Mark Lawrence!?

Just a wild guess, but he has been known to penalise the All Black's at times :fishing:

Actually a good question that many of us would like the answer to. He is well ahead of his namesake from NZ, and a number of others.

It would be interesting to know the guidelines used for selection.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Moses]

Is Steve Walsh as an Australian able to referee games in which New Zealand are playing?

 

[Dam0]

Is Steve Walsh as an Australian able to referee games in which New Zealand are playing?

Very good question. As much as I like Steve Walsh, he really shouldn't be reffing games involving either the AB's or the Wallabies. Harsh but fair.

 

[chief]

Very good question. As much as I like Steve Walsh, he really shouldn't be reffing games involving either the AB's or the Wallabies. Harsh but fair.

I don't think Walsh deserved to be there at all.

I would rather Mark Lawrence, Vinny Munro, Alan Lewis. Walsh has been dreadful since he came back.

But I certainly agree. Walsh shouldn't be refereeing or Touch Judging any games involving any AB's or Wallabies games.

 

[Jay]

Just a wild guess, but he has been known to penalise the All Black's at times :fishing:

Actually a good question that many of us would like the answer to. He is well ahead of his namesake from NZ, and a number of others.

It would be interesting to know the guidelines used for selection.

Sent using Tapatalk

I've never had any problems with Lawrence, except that time he missed Sivivatu being tackled without the ball 2 m from the tryline in 08....

 

[Jay]

I don't think Walsh deserved to be there at all.

I would rather Mark Lawrence, Vinny Munro, Alan Lewis. Walsh has been dreadful since he came back.

But I certainly agree. Walsh shouldn't be refereeing or Touch Judging any games involving any AB's or Wallabies games.

I reckon he's been a lot better than he was before the NZRU dumped him, but it would be an absolute joke if he was involved in an AB test (in the middle anyway - he can do the sideline).

 

[Brumby Jack]

Ok, I'll start.

Why is Kaplan there and not Mark Lawrence!?

They can only have one Lawrence, and Bryce kissed enough arse to be it.

 

[Lee Grant]

Some of those ref appointments are bunk. Stuey and Mark Lawrence got a raw deal and Stuey has been on the outer with POB for yonks.

Garces is the best ref in France and is just an AR, though Poite is OK and is good with the scrums since he refs on the vibe of it and doesn't stuff around with a lot of resets.

Clancy showed his inexperience with the forward pass kerfuffle. Kaplan misses more than any of them but can control a game. Pearson smooths errors over with jollity but the jollier he is the more you know he is stuffing up.

Owens is in POB's image: players are shit scared of him when he's in a bad mood. B. Lawrence can't make a decision; Walsh talks too much and since he is thought to like conversation, captains are encouraged to talk to him too much. He seems to be vulnerable to the last man he spoke to though that is probably a false impression. Whatever - he should encourage silence.

Rolland is very good but can have shockers.

The best refs IMO are the two youngest: Wayne Barnes and Craig Joubert, and probably in that order now. The appointment of Barnes for the Brisbane Bledisloe was a signal IMO. If England doesn't make the final he could get the gig.

 

[naza]

Some of those ref appointments are bunk. Stuey and Mark Lawrence got a raw deal and Stuey has been on the outer with POB for yonks.

Mark Lawrence has been deadset robbed. He's the best ref in the game with daylight second.

Rolland is more out of his depth than Zach Guilford.

 

[Jay]

Some of those ref appointments are bunk. Stuey ....got a raw deal and Stuey has been on the outer with POB for yonks.

Seriously? Dickenson's a terrible ref, IMO.

 

[Scarfman]

Odd - all the Kiwis agree. Wonder why? Because he actually penalises you! Do you also wonder why he's on the outer with POB?

It's a conspiracy.

 

[Jay]

Odd - all the Kiwis agree. Wonder why? Because he actually penalises you! Do you also wonder why he's on the outer with POB?

It's a conspiracy.

No, it's cause he misses a truckload of knock ons, forward passes & penalties for both sides, and is terrible at managing the breakdown.

Also, he blatantly lied about not seeing that Brad Thorn tip tackle/spear on John Smit. Either that or he's legally blind.

I'm not being jingoistic here - I think the NZ refs are pretty dreadful too (I rate Lawrence as an even worse ref than Dickenson). Walsh is probably the best in Australasia at the moment, and he's nothing special. There hasn't been a good test ref down this way since Lyndon Bray, I reckon.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I want to make a few points in response to the early ref bashing:
Walsh will not be appointed to Australia or NZ games.
All referees make mistakes - referees are human and refereeing a quick dynamic game
IMO, Stuey is the not the best ref but is the best ref of the hard games as his strength is fixing problem areas in the game. Unfortunately sometimes he fixes them when they are not there. His experience will be missed.
The more experience you have, the better referee you will be but it is more likely that you have had a bad day with everyone.
I hope Barnes earns and gets to referee the final

 

[chief]

No, it's cause he misses a truckload of knock ons, forward passes & penalties for both sides, and is terrible at managing the breakdown.

Also, he blatantly lied about not seeing that Brad Thorn tip tackle/spear on John Smit. Either that or he's legally blind.

I'm not being jingoistic here - I think the NZ refs are pretty dreadful too (I rate Lawrence as an even worse ref than Dickenson). Walsh is probably the best in Australasia at the moment, and he's nothing special. There hasn't been a good test ref down this way since Lyndon Bray, I reckon.

There was a reason Lyndon Bray didn't go anywhere as a referee, he was bloody terrible.

Everyone moans about Lawrence, but I like how he refs (sometimes) he just stays out of the game, and isn't an all about me ref. There's nothing more frustrating than hearing Dickinson and Joubert blow their whistles all game. It's why I'm half sympathetic to Richie McCaw.

 

[Top Bloke]

So even before the RWC has started - this thread has degenerated into a mud slinging, biased, jingoistic crap-fest.
Bitch - yes check, Moan - yes check, Discuss - no way tell em he's dreaming.

 

[yourmatesam]

The best refs IMO are the two youngest: Wayne Barnes and Craig Joubert, and probably in that order now. The appointment of Barnes for the Brisbane Bledisloe was a signal IMO. If England doesn't make the final he could get the gig.

I agree LG, although I would probably put Joubert higher.

 

[Toby Lerone]

Walsh will not be appointed to Australia or NZ games.

Walsh is AR1 for one of New Zealand's pool games (vs Canada), and although I don't expect him to cost Canada a chance at beating the All Blacks, surely it's a risk to have him involved in any of NZ's tests. As AR1, if the referee got injured at any point in the warm-up or the match, Walsh would become the referee.

I'm surprised that the IRB have done this and would expect him not to be involved in any capacity for a knockout game involving his native New Zealand.