School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[sarcophilus]

Im new to this forum and don't want to step outside boundaries that i am only briefly aware of but .... are we assuming that the Scots has imported allot of players in the 16's ? do we have proof of this ? Why do we assume that Scots have when New has lost by a similar margin to Joeys? ... its no secret how very few of the New first 15 started in year 7 ..same for last year i believe .... I don't want to get into a debate about imports but as a father of two boys in the prep at Scots and an old boy I can tell you that the appointment of Marcus Blackburn as director of rugby at Scots several years ago has brought about a complete grass roots up development program from year 3 in the prep to the first 15... the rugby program has been planned and implemented from the ground up and the results are starting to show over the past few years, it seems to me that this is the way all of the GPS schools will need to go from now on if they want to secure the holy grail.... wether thats good or bad i'm not sure.......

First answer ....... Yes
Saying "I don't want to get into a debate........." You are not going to get the last word here by that fairly lame tactic but don,t be too surprised if after six years of paying school fees you realise a couple or three or four New South Wales U 15 tuen up in term 3 of year 10 or year 9

 

[Freddo Frog]

That 16A's Scots team has been beating it's competition by large margins the entire way through high school. I think they may have lost (possibly) one or two matches in the 15's due to Glengarry, but have been pretty much unbeatable since Yr 7. As far as I know there are two new boys, both boarders, the rest have been there since the Prep school.

 

[The Spectator]

That 16A's Scots team has been beating it's competition by large margins the entire way through high school. I think they may have lost (possibly) one or two matches in the 15's due to Glengarry, but have been pretty much unbeatable since Yr 7. As far as I know there are two new boys, both boarders, the rest have been there since the Prep school.

Wrong Frog. The Joeys boys have been undefeated in comp games in 13s, 14s and 15s. You might not know the "new" Scots team like the boys who play against them. One back of the envelope calculation had 7 "new" boys.

 

[Quick Hands]

As a lover of history I would love to hear the substance of an allegation that High imported sporting talent in the 90s - do tell.


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especially since High went from winning 5/7 1st XV games in 1990 to being uncompetitive in 2000.

And of course the Scots team of 1993 is still the gold standard in scholarships.

 

[GTPIH]

especially since High went from winning 5/7 1st XV games in 1990 to being uncompetitive in 2000.

And of course the Scots team of 1993 is still the gold standard in scholarships.

I would suggest Newington 2013 has claimed that crown

 

[Quick Hands]

Have indeed and I know how they do it.

Do tell.

 

[I like to watch]

That 16A's Scots team has been beating it's competition by large margins the entire way through high school. I think they may have lost (possibly) one or two matches in the 15's due to Glengarry, but have been pretty much unbeatable since Yr 7. As far as I know there are two new boys, both boarders, the rest have been there since the Prep school.

Froggy, you do realise that some students have been on a Scholarship since year 7?
It's mind boggling isn't it.
Or disgraceful,depending on your point of view.

 

[Balmain Subbies]

Inside Shoulder...... Do your research.... there were a few in the early to mid 90's. All i am saying the imports have been around for a long time, Ken Catchpole was on a scholarship to Scots. Seem to work out well for the Wallabies.
I believe if we are going to have a healthy rugby system then importing should be the norm, much like the college systems in the US. Trying to stick to the no import system is outdated and will be to the determent of australian rugby.

These Private schools have access to modern technology and sports science and will produce better players and keep us in line with league players of the same age.

 

[I like to watch]

Thank God for Scots eh?
Catchy would have been nothing without them?
It's this kind of dribble that infuriates me.
You understand the GPS comp is now between 6 competitive Schools?
comparing a 6 School comp to a National University comp where there is national TV coverage ,in stadiums that seat 90,000 in games where most participants are in their twenties is a fucking stupid comparison.
IMO.

 

[Tight head Lion]

Would that be as a result of the scouting combine otherwise known as the State Champs?

Correct. Plus the NSWPSSA Championships.

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[Tight head Lion]

That 16A's Scots team has been beating it's competition by large margins the entire way through high school. I think they may have lost (possibly) one or two matches in the 15's due to Glengarry, but have been pretty much unbeatable since Yr 7. As far as I know there are two new boys, both boarders, the rest have been there since the Prep school.

Incorrect. There are only three prep boys in there.

 

[Tight head Lion]

especially since High went from winning 5/7 1st XV games in 1990 to being uncompetitive in 2000.

And of course the Scots team of 1993 is still the gold standard in scholarships.

TSC readily admit that team was money well spent. They hope the current crop pay off as well.

 

[Tight head Lion]

Froggy, you do realise that some students have been on a Scholarship since year 7?
It's mind boggling isn't it.
Or disgraceful,depending on your point of view.

...and I helped make it happen.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You understand the GPS comp is now between 6 competitive Schools?

But is it?
Shore 0/3
Kings 1/3 - the 1 being Shore.
'View having 43 points put on them - not a good sign, even with talk of this being a rebuilding year, particularly when you take account of the 16's.
This is likely to get worse as the longer season progresses and depth is tested.
Joeys sound like they did well v New. 2nds SJC 12-7 (12-0 with 10 to go) 3rds SJC 22-0.

Which proves without more that Balmain Subbies notion that importing is productive of "a healthy rugby system" is balderdash. We're arguably down to 3 teams - 45 players - some of whom will have 2 years in 1's meaning that the AAGPS system is hardly likely to keep Australian Rugby fully stocked with s 15 players (and, hence, test players) for very long at all a single season. Immediate proof of the adverse impact of narrowing the base may be available from the poor u20's performance.

Before you (@Balmain Subbies) invite me to research Catchpole's credentials (not sure how I would do that - BTW he was allegedly on a scholarship @ Randwick too) perhaps you need to have a quick gander at the U18 Schools trial in NSW: GPS 2 beat CHS 2s 67-0, GPS 1s beat CHS 1s 57-5: hardly suggestive of a thriving high school's rugby nursery, such as there was in Catchpole's time.
CHS in u16s got very close to the unofficial GPS U16s team - 13-7: how many of these boys will be playing at GPS schools in 2014??? Results of day 1 here: http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=201686 ; Day 2: http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=201687

Leaving aside all the ethical and moral issues associated with the practice the fact is it is narrowing the competitive base of school rugby in Australia and making it much more difficult for the game to attract and keep later developing kids from outside the GPS system, partly because they can barely get a game.
Plainly the GPS schools are not interested in Australian rugby generally, and have no obligation to be so, but please dont paint their selfish short sighted pursuit of transient success as a service to the game.
Anyone who loves rugby would be opposed to this practice.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Thank God for Scots eh?
Catchy would have been nothing without them?
It's this kind of dribble that infuriates me.
You understand the GPS comp is now between 6 competitive Schools?
comparing a 6 School comp to a National University comp where there is national TV coverage ,in stadiums that seat 90,000 in games where most participants are in their twenties is a fucking stupid comparison.
IMO.

Not to mention that the colleges derive enormous income from the coverage that they are then obligated to spend on all sporting programs not just football!
Or the fact that scholarship holders have to meet academic performance criteria.

 

[Quick Hands]

But is it?
Shore 0/3
Kings 1/3 - the 1 being Shore.
'View having 43 points put on them - not a good sign, even with talk of this being a rebuilding year, particularly when you take account of the 16's.
This is likely to get worse as the longer season progresses and depth is tested.
Joeys sound like they did well v New. 2nds SJC 12-7 (12-0 with 10 to go) 3rds SJC 22-0.

Anyone who loves rugby would be opposed to this practice.

I am certainly worried that what we are seeing at Shore is the beginning of what we have already seen at High 1990-2000 and Grammar 2000-2010. A steady decline in competitiveness.

Against TSC, Shore lost the 1sts and all the A matches by something like 170-60. Shore won the 15Bs (Scots Glengarry year) and the 2nds. Yet from Cs down Shore won most of the games.

It has been said that this year's TSC 16As comprise only 2 boys who weren't at Scots Prep. Bearing in mind that Scots Prep supplies around 50% of Year 7 students and the rest come from elsewhere, I find it difficult to accept that 13/15 boys from the 12As are still playing 16As and that only 2 boys since Year 7 have been able to force there way into the team. I'm afraid I'd need a player list with year of commencement to accept it.

I also noticed that one of the TSC supporters seems to consider winning the AAGPS rugby is a 'holy grail', here's me thinking that were at school to learn.

Meanwhile, in the 3rds competition, where teams are just made of the boys who happen to go to each of the 9 schools, we have a very even competition. Who'd have thought?

 

[Freddo Frog]

Quick Hands, Tight Head Lion has said that there are only three boys from Scots prep in the 16a's. I have heard numerous times from parents of boys in that age group that this playing group have been together all the way through, with only two or three recent additions. It seems that that info may well be wrong...I'm curious to see the team lists now.

 

[The Spectator]

Quick Hands, Tight Head Lion has said that there are only three boys from Scots prep in the 16a's. I have heard numerous times from parents of boys in that age group that this playing group have been together all the way through, with only two or three recent additions. It seems that that info may well be wrong.I'm curious to see the team lists now.

Just look at the Warringah Under 16s team list for a start. Surprising number also play at Scots. Girdler (since yr 7); strang, england, hawkins (NSW country Under 15s 2012), Porter (opens and played 15s last year and not 16s). Then there is McCauley (NSW Under 15s last yr) playing seconds from Coogee?; Jack Maddox, then there are a couple of others whose names I can't recall.

I am sure the Scots parents could tell you more.....it is sad for Newington Under 16s as there aren't too many stars left - they might have to start poaching from Auggies.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

not try and give the boys the best opportunity to go down this career path? Much like the academic scholarships that are given to boys to attend GPS schools so they can follow a career in their chosen field?

You're kidding, I hope.
Have you just got back from the states?
How many of these kids ever play pro rugby? Very very few. Proficiency below the age of 18 (at least) is a poor indicator of future success: the vast majority of wallabies did not play OS schools or oz schools A or even for their state schools team.
I hope you're not out there among unsuspecting kids and fee paying parents spreading the idea that winning a GPS rugby premiership, or even playing in it, might provide anyone with a real chance of a pro rugby career. Have a look at the debate about the extent to which this years oz school boys are thought likely to be able to carve out such a career.
You'll be lucky to see 1 from each of the 6 competitive schools make it, on average, from any given year, recruited or not.
Your attitude worries me: I fear it reflects what some parents think.



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[Hugh Jarse]

I am certainly worried that what we are seeing at Shore is the beginning of what we have already seen at High 1990-2000 and Grammar 2000-2010. A steady decline in competitiveness.

./...snip.../

Maybe this will be the only way to get the attention of the ARU powerbrokers to the issue of the state of health of the junior/school game in Sydney (everywhere). Hit them in the ego.

Unfortunately once proud Shore has to become a casualty for the Shore/Northern Suburbs/Mosman Whales Axis of Power to become aware of the real problems with "The Pathway" at Junior and School level.