wisemaan
Bill Watson (15)
Would Newington be the most imported school for rugby in the gps?
School sporting scholarships/recruitment
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also young Kden Carter in the 2s getting the free ride
MaulMasterMind
Allen Oxlade (6)
Oh, no. There's no need to get started on their 2s as well. Many boys there are not paying school fees. It's sad that they can't develop and yet rather look to bring in players.
shame that now many schools are in an arms race - there's places that opportunities can be helpful for especially disadvantaged students but that is best discussed here ;-) https://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/school-sporting-scholarships-recruitment.5780/
This buying comps was the strategy of the previous DOR. The new DOR is focused more on developing players with better coaching and culture. It's not going to happen overnight but he is committed to it.
Went to a seminar last night featuring Newington DOR; very impressive approach that in sorely needed it seems, but will take a lot of time and cohesion to embed!
Yep. he's a breath of fresh air after the previous charlatan. Won't happen overnight and he knows that, but he's a good rugby man and very committed.
Newington didn't pay for them. The leagues club do. It is their way to skirt the rule that students cannot be paid. But if a parent was told we will give your son 2 years in a top school with only obligation is that they play with us after leaving school. Parra and Balmain are spending money on retaining these kids services for the two years after school. Newington still get school fees jut not paid for by the family but a league club. This happened at Scots years ago and set the template.
twister29
Ward Prentice (10)
I understand this, rather than the school paying $3.5 million, the players as a collective asset have a value of approximately that number. This investment from the clubs into sourcing players, this sourcing seems to be getting earlier and earlier. I wonder if club management sees this way of sourcing as a way to go around caps.
Are these players getting their school fees paid AS WELL as a contract salary, or just one or the other? I know of some boys on bursaries AND contract salaries but unsure about this dynamic.
Also, do we have a little list of the movements & arrangements of these boys? (Knowing Heamasi is infamously on his $3m Tigers track)
Are these players getting their school fees paid AS WELL as a contract salary, or just one or the other? I know of some boys on bursaries AND contract salaries but unsure about this dynamic.
Also, do we have a little list of the movements & arrangements of these boys? (Knowing Heamasi is infamously on his $3m Tigers track)
There are 3 or 4 kids on indigenous scholarships. 1 is from Tupou College in Tonga as they provide a Tongan scholarships to kids from there.
Like all GPS schools there are a range of scholarships that are primarily offered to kids who come from disadvantaged backgrounds. If you look at most of the current First XV, more than half have been with the college since year 8, some as early as Year 4. There are bursaries of varying levels as well. Some full, some part. So it's a bit trite to suggest they have bought a premiership. That's playing a bloody long game if so.
There are 1 or 2 kids who I suspect are out and out league players whose tuition are paid for by an NRL club. There were more in last year's first XV. A big part of why this years teams is going well, was that a large proportion of the first XV squad were in year 10 or 11.
Unfortunately, there is a stigma attached to the school because the previous DOR prioritized some of that over developing coaching at lower levels. The end result is the relatively poor performances of New junior teams this year. That will take some time to turn around but the new DOR is heavily focused on developing kids at young age through better coaching and building a better rugby culture.
There is also a heavy focus on AFL and Soccer so the number of kids playing rugby is smaller relative to other schools who clearly prioritise rugby as their main winter sport.
It's a small sample size, but my son, who was going to play AFL this year, decided to give rugby another go, because of the energy and direction of the aforementioned DOR. And I can say he has never enjoyed his rugby more.
Like all GPS schools there are a range of scholarships that are primarily offered to kids who come from disadvantaged backgrounds. If you look at most of the current First XV, more than half have been with the college since year 8, some as early as Year 4. There are bursaries of varying levels as well. Some full, some part. So it's a bit trite to suggest they have bought a premiership. That's playing a bloody long game if so.
There are 1 or 2 kids who I suspect are out and out league players whose tuition are paid for by an NRL club. There were more in last year's first XV. A big part of why this years teams is going well, was that a large proportion of the first XV squad were in year 10 or 11.
Unfortunately, there is a stigma attached to the school because the previous DOR prioritized some of that over developing coaching at lower levels. The end result is the relatively poor performances of New junior teams this year. That will take some time to turn around but the new DOR is heavily focused on developing kids at young age through better coaching and building a better rugby culture.
There is also a heavy focus on AFL and Soccer so the number of kids playing rugby is smaller relative to other schools who clearly prioritise rugby as their main winter sport.
It's a small sample size, but my son, who was going to play AFL this year, decided to give rugby another go, because of the energy and direction of the aforementioned DOR. And I can say he has never enjoyed his rugby more.
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He's on an indigenous scholarship
The Cleaner
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Agree. I don't quite understand what the fuss is with players on scholarships. Does it really matter? I mean if a kid is blessed with a talent in any sport and it open doors for them into one of the prestigious schools here in Australia...What's wrong with that? The boys that I know who are on scholarships at NC/SC/TKS that plays rugby, I applaud those schools for giving them opportunities. Opportunity to be exposed to high level of education and training, access to network with some of the 1%'s in this country (if any of course). Point it, their talents opens doors and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. And no, I don't have a child on scholarship in any school.
Jakeburner65
Chris McKivat (8)
I think the point is that we should award the scholarship regardless of the student's ability to kick a footy; i.e. they shouldn't be professionals, it's amateur schoolboy sport.
Otherwise, it appears as it probably is, extremely self-interested of the school, the old boys, etc., with the actual kids' interests a distant second to that.
In the case of Newington, this year in particular, it appears to be the school and old boys throwing some "meat to the crowd" in light of the well-publicised and ongoing infighting regarding coeducation.
The sports scholarship practice also has the potential to unbalance a competition, with super competitive "2nd XVs" full of kids who, in the normal course of events, would otherwise be 1st XV kids.
I also don't think it's great for school culture. From the reports that I have heard, the sports "scholarship" kids know precisely why they are there, as does every other kid in the place, which can generate an "Us and Them" dynamic.
Not to mention the impact on the culture in the schools robbed of their own talent.
You can actually see the pressure boil over in games from time to time - some of the sports "scholarship" kids blowing up when things don't go their way on the pitch, "overreacting" to a casual observer, striking out, etc., because they are under constant pressure to perform.
The new rules of the AAGPS, which eradicated the provisions against sports scholarship and inducements, are crummy to say the least...
The fact that we went from a literal boycott on Scots a couple of years ago to this Newington side, which will likely win the comp by recruiting as far and wide as QLD and Tonga, while their lower age groups are getting belted, shows how far we have slid into professionalism and "winning at all costs".
Never mind what it says about the general state of grassroots Rugby in this country. League teams paying tuition? Seriously? The joke is on us.
Otherwise, it appears as it probably is, extremely self-interested of the school, the old boys, etc., with the actual kids' interests a distant second to that.
In the case of Newington, this year in particular, it appears to be the school and old boys throwing some "meat to the crowd" in light of the well-publicised and ongoing infighting regarding coeducation.
The sports scholarship practice also has the potential to unbalance a competition, with super competitive "2nd XVs" full of kids who, in the normal course of events, would otherwise be 1st XV kids.
I also don't think it's great for school culture. From the reports that I have heard, the sports "scholarship" kids know precisely why they are there, as does every other kid in the place, which can generate an "Us and Them" dynamic.
Not to mention the impact on the culture in the schools robbed of their own talent.
You can actually see the pressure boil over in games from time to time - some of the sports "scholarship" kids blowing up when things don't go their way on the pitch, "overreacting" to a casual observer, striking out, etc., because they are under constant pressure to perform.
The new rules of the AAGPS, which eradicated the provisions against sports scholarship and inducements, are crummy to say the least...
The fact that we went from a literal boycott on Scots a couple of years ago to this Newington side, which will likely win the comp by recruiting as far and wide as QLD and Tonga, while their lower age groups are getting belted, shows how far we have slid into professionalism and "winning at all costs".
Never mind what it says about the general state of grassroots Rugby in this country. League teams paying tuition? Seriously? The joke is on us.
twister29
Ward Prentice (10)
Completely agree with the importance of these opportunity and the benefits for the boys and families. I definitely lean to your opinion but I just have some opposing thoughts...
But look at how many current NRL or Union players come from GPS schools (obviously Union and GPS is same code so more correlation). Even look at the club pathways & junior squads, basically all boys come from outside GPS. Say if Heamasi did not go to Newington, would he miss league? He may not get his $1 million, but he is not going to just miss pathways altogether. Most boys get in contact with the schools already with a manager and network, the same manager and network that can get them in an NRL pathways squad.
Furthermore, if the schools are going to give these world class opportunities in education, networks, etc, why does it have to be a symbiotic relationship? These opportunities are given to these boys but the schools get something in return, nothing is wrong with that, but surely there could be a better way to do this. Why not give these opportunities to boys with nothing going for them? There is clearly space for boys who generationally have not had these opportunities, and not even the opportunity to get good enough at rugby. If the schools really care about the opportunity they provide, why do those they give it to just happen to be good at rugby? In my lengthy experience, unfortunately a lot of these boys also don't appreciate these opportunities, as they know they have footy going for them so they couldn't care less about academics and the rich benefits of going to these schools.
Twister.
But look at how many current NRL or Union players come from GPS schools (obviously Union and GPS is same code so more correlation). Even look at the club pathways & junior squads, basically all boys come from outside GPS. Say if Heamasi did not go to Newington, would he miss league? He may not get his $1 million, but he is not going to just miss pathways altogether. Most boys get in contact with the schools already with a manager and network, the same manager and network that can get them in an NRL pathways squad.
Furthermore, if the schools are going to give these world class opportunities in education, networks, etc, why does it have to be a symbiotic relationship? These opportunities are given to these boys but the schools get something in return, nothing is wrong with that, but surely there could be a better way to do this. Why not give these opportunities to boys with nothing going for them? There is clearly space for boys who generationally have not had these opportunities, and not even the opportunity to get good enough at rugby. If the schools really care about the opportunity they provide, why do those they give it to just happen to be good at rugby? In my lengthy experience, unfortunately a lot of these boys also don't appreciate these opportunities, as they know they have footy going for them so they couldn't care less about academics and the rich benefits of going to these schools.
Twister.
twister29
Ward Prentice (10)
Never said better @Jakeburner65
The Cleaner
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Thank you for that. Clearly, I had a very simplistic viewpoint.
The Cleaner
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Understood, and thank you.
Meat to the crowd? How do you figure that when most of the team have been there since year 7 or 8. Stupid, ill-informed comment. You should check your facts before sprouting ill informed nonsense.