School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[TheKing]

Hate to d

Hate to disagree King, but i fear the player will be out the door as quickly as he arrived - its happened before at Churchie, Nudgee and TSS. And if Churchie do win the premiership this year, and this boy may be part of that, the perceived benefit of that win will be far outwieghed by the damage that their position on sporting scholarships is currently doing them.

No dramas, I'm happy to stir up some debate. When you say it's he'll be out the door and its happened before, do you mean he'll be expelled/leave the school before the season or the year ends?

 

[Vegas]

No dramas, I'm happy to stir up some debate. When you say it's he'll be out the door and its happened before, do you mean he'll be expelled/leave the school before the season or the year ends?

leave the school before the year ends

 

[Knockers]

How many in the BBC First XV are on scholarships/bursaries.

I hear 10 will be returning next year.

Around 10 from the BBC first XV did not start in year 8 and have been "brought in" by the school.

Sala (began 2012- year 12 this year), Peterson (began 2012- Year 11 this year), Leyland (began 2013), Swain (began 2013), Tuuga (began 2013), Gunter (began 2013), Dempsey (began 2013), Bowen (began 2012- year 12 this year), Quick (began 2012- year 12 this year), Wilkins (began 2013- only year 10).

They by far have the most new players in there teams. Most schools have 2 or 3 new players, with the exception of Nudgee (Luka, Hewat, Pilz, Charl-Smith, Calugay) and Churchie (Webb, Fox, Asiata, Dempsey, Perese, Mason).

 

[deansy]

Around 10 from the BBC first XV did not start in year 8 and have been "brought in" by the school.

Sala (began 2012- year 12 this year), Peterson (began 2012- Year 11 this year), Leyland (began 2013), Swain (began 2013), Tuuga (began 2013), Gunter (began 2013), Dempsey (began 2013), Bowen (began 2012- year 12 this year), Quick (began 2012- year 12 this year), Wilkins (began 2013- only year 10).

They by far have the most new players in there teams. Most schools have 2 or 3 new players, with the exception of Nudgee (Luka, Hewat, Pilz, Charl-Smith, Calugay) and Churchie (Webb, Fox, Asiata, Dempsey, Perese, Mason).

What would be interesting is to get this weekends team lists for all QLD schools& try to put down when the boys actually started at the school. You would find schools like BGS, GT, TGS, IGS & perhaps BHSS would have the highest participation of boys starting in year 8 & even year 5.

 

[Brian Westlake]

I think the end result is that the private schools are a business, and rugby success is good for business in the sense that the canteens make money, and the support groups make money. Winning the premiership gets increased numbers of kids playing, old boys at the game, and ultimately more money in the school.

It'd be interesting to find out how relative Rugby success is to enrolments each year.

Like the boosting analogy I made before, I can see the days when schoolboy rugby gets to the point where it's like the NCAA tournaments in the US, where schools compete in luring young players to play on their teams, forcing them to maintain a high Grade Point Average to play for the school, banning meetings with agents and professional coaches until they finish the school year, etc etc etc etc. Games like last years 'Grand Final' between Nudgee and BGS attracted a crowd of maybe 7000 people, and the atmosphere was like something out a sports movie. I expect Saturday's crowd at TSS v Nudgee be of a similar number.

How long will it be until one school builds a 10,000 seat stadium and signs over the TV rights for the competition to Fox Sports, or channel 10, or any other network looking for a new market to broadcast?

If you were in Noo Zulund over the weekend, I saw on line that the local skysports TV was playing Kamo College Vs Otago Boys High (richie McCaws alma mater). It looked like your prophecy is already starting The King. Check it out on line. Some mighty big boys running around on the ad.
But then again, these guys also broadcast dog trials on its own tv station. Now l know why they come here... Better TV:/

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Dear QLD readers,

A couple of the schools down our way have done similar recently, possibly as a statement against Scholarshipping, or partly as a statement of "Look at our development programme".

Strangely, the "usual suspects" haven't adopted this practice.

The only caution to this is some schools do genuinely have a year 10 intake for Senior College, and some parents can only afford (or only decide) to send kids for Senior College (Yr 10-Yr 12). Listing the year of entry for these lads does tend to tar them with the Scholarship brush unreasonably.

It smacks a little of an attitude "if you haven't been here since Year 7, then you are not really a genuine 'one of us' ".

It is a rather powerful statement though.

 

[Galloper]

In my experience, it's not actually the School tie, it's more the fact that your best mates dad is in a position to give you a leg up.Rather than someone you have never met, giving you a preference based on the School you attended.

That's a fair point, but the best mate's dad would probably still not have too much influence if he has fellow partners or directors to whom he has to answer.

Looking around my profession, I don't see too many who owe their success to getting a "leg up". Moreover, in my view, the tangible, or even intangible, impact of school affiliation becomes more dilute with every passing year post-graduation.

In any event, getting back on topic, it seems to me that an Old Boy or "dad" is unlikely to be too concerned about the career prospects of some kid parachuted into a school simply for one season or so of rugby glory - once out of sight, out of mind - as with the present system there will be plenty of others just like him coming along each year.

 

[FlashFlanker]

How many in the BBC First XV are on scholarships/bursaries.

I hear 10 will be returning next year.

Shows how aware some people are:
- seven boys at least in Grade 11
- two boys in Grade 10

Hence almost no repeats next year... just a very young cohort.

 

[Spieber]

That's a fair point, but the best mate's dad would probably still not have too much influence if he has fellow partners or directors to whom he has to answer.

Looking around my profession, I don't see too many who owe their success to getting a "leg up". Moreover, in my view, the tangible, or even intangible, impact of school affiliation becomes more dilute with every passing year post-graduation.

In any event, getting back on topic, it seems to me that an Old Boy or "dad" is unlikely to be too concerned about the career prospects of some kid parachuted into a school simply for one season or so of rugby glory - once out of sight, out of mind - as with the present system there will be plenty of others just like him coming along each year.

The boys who attended a school for a reasonable period of time and are able to excel at sport have an advantage. Personally I would look at someone who is known by association if I think they work well with others and have a track record of high achievement. Someone parachuted in for a couple of games does not fall within these parameters.

 

[Taipan168]

Around 10 from the BBC first XV did not start in year 8 and have been "brought in" by the school.

Sala (began 2012- year 12 this year), Peterson (began 2012- Year 11 this year), Leyland (began 2013), Swain (began 2013), Tuuga (began 2013), Gunter (began 2013), Dempsey (began 2013), Bowen (began 2012- year 12 this year), Quick (began 2012- year 12 this year), Wilkins (began 2013- only year 10).

They by far have the most new players in there teams. Most schools have 2 or 3 new players, with the exception of Nudgee (Luka, Hewat, Pilz, Charl-Smith, Calugay) and Churchie (Webb, Fox, Asiata, Dempsey, Perese, Mason).

Reece Hewat is not new. Was in 15As last year.
Who is Charl-Smith ?
Four new imports: Gavin Luka, Reece Hewat, Eli Pilz, Franklin Calugay.

 

[FlashFlanker]

Reece Hewat is not new. Was in 15As last year.
Who is Charl-Smith ?
Four new imports: Gavin Luka, Reece Hewat, Eli Pilz, Franklin Calugay.

If Reece Hewat was at Nudgee last year that is amazing... because he was recruited from his home in Illawarra after playing for NSW Vs Qld U15 in June last year... that would make it mid season.

Matt Gibbon came from Alstonville in NSW ... same place as Calugay

Tyrone Hussey came from Townsville in U15

Aran Speldewinde came in U16 from a north Brisbane suburb called Western Australia after playing in the National Championships.

Calvin Pritchard came in U15 from Marsden SHS.

I note that Alex Mafi came in U15 as well.

You see U15 two years ago was a year NC obviously struggled even with these boys moving to their local school NC. I have just looked and the U15 A B C results Vs BBC were 77-0, 99-0 and 99-0.

Rather than deal with half the truth, we should all be totally honest.

 

[Taipan168]

If Reece Hewat was at Nudgee last year that is amazing. because he was recruited from his home in Illawarra after playing for NSW Vs Qld U15 in June last year. that would make it mid season.

Matt Gibbon came from Alstonville in NSW . same place as Calugay

Tyrone Hussey came from Townsville in U15

Aran Speldewinde came in U16 from a north Brisbane suburb called Western Australia after playing in the National Championships.

Calvin Pritchard came in U15 from Marsden SHS.

I note that Alex Mafi came in U15 as well.

You see U15 two years ago was a year NC obviously struggled even with these boys moving to their local school NC. I have just looked and the U15 A B C results Vs BBC were 77-0, 99-0 and 99-0.

Rather than deal with half the truth, we should all be totally honest.

My bad, I meant Jackson Evans not Reece Hewat. I was wrong.
Calvin Pritchard was also in 15A.

 

[FlashFlanker]

My bad, I meant Jackson Evans not Reece Hewat. I was wrong.
Calvin Pritchard was also in 15A.

Precisely... Calvin wasn't at Nudgee in U14 or U13 because he was at Marsden SHS. Sort of just like Joe Tomane a few years ago. He too was at Marsden SHS along with Rataaz Vaaluu but found themselves boarding at NC and ultimately selected for Schoolboys. The record will show they were Nudgee players when selected for schoolboys.

I am not saying any or all these guys received scholarships. After all "What is a scholarship". Is it when a school allows full or part waiving of fees including boarding fees? Does it include where a corporation from the boy's town puts up money and for one reason or another they go to school Z? Does it include where people who run a charitable trust choose to send people in need to a particular school? What about where an old boy/s or foundation puts up the money?

This is such a complex issue with no quick fix.

In the murky world of NRL clubs push the rules and break them. Sure they are businesses and the players are employees.

Unfortunately there are Old Boys networks, individual old boys wanting to relive their former glories through their kids, parents manipulating for team or school glory, and in some cases schools and rugby masters simply trying to ensure their teams don't copy a pasting by artificially engineered SUPER teams.

It seems with all these vested interests it is unlikely to be resolved without something bringing it to a head. I'm just waiting for the schools who sustain injuries to raid the talent at non GPS schools to supplement their teams now that the precedent has been set.

I suppose we are lucky this year that no teams are being slaughtered by cricket scores... at least in the 1st XVs.

 

[Knockers]

Reece Hewat is not new. Was in 15As last year.
Who is Charl-Smith ?
Four new imports: Gavin Luka, Reece Hewat, Eli Pilz, Franklin Calugay.

Jean Charl-Smith began at Nudgee this year and came from Western Australia after being scouted in the U16 national championships as well as being the the National Gold Squad and being apart of the Western Force Academy (http://www.westernforce.com.au/Team/Academy/BankwestAcademy/Level2AcademyProfiles.aspx). He played round 1 against BGS but i'm guessing he is injured at the moment.

Ipswich Grammar brought in a few players from NSW- Izack Rodda, Dallas Flanagan and Dylan Gale (only one of them ended up playing firsts).

The Southport School only have one new player, Joey Fittock. Came from the same place as Matt Gibbon and Franky Calugay.

Brisbane Grammar have two new players, Lachlan Lanskey and Tom Sly- both are league players from Bundaberg.

Gregory Terrace have Nikau Te-rupe and Kyle Leofa.

 

[Quick Hands]

One idea that I've been thinking about for a while, which will at least minimise some of this is a points system for 1st and 2nd XV matches.

Boy starts in Year 7 - 1pt, Y8 2pts, Y9 3pts, Y10 4pts, Y11 5 pts & Y 12 6pts.

A 1st or 2nd XV can only have say 25 or 30 points on the field at any one time. Won't stop everything and also won't stop the genuine boys who have come to the school late, but it will stop wholesale recruiting/importing.

 

[guildford]

The thing about hired guns is I assume they are well paid for the work they do.

Let me clarify

Will he really be a part of the old boy network? absolutely.

Will 10 weeks at a GPS school be a life changing experience? Maybe. And for the following reason.

He might not meet many students at his new school in his brief time, but he will be afforded the opportunity to get the same newsletters, go to the same re-unions and get the same business contacts and subsequent opportunities the other members Old Boy association get. He might not have known the boys, but I'm sure they'll have known him by the time he finishes. If he is, for example, in a position with a 50/50 chance of getting a job or a promotion, being able to claim an X education and those schoolboy contacts as opposed to a Y education may tip the odds in his favour.

I admit that the benefits for him are significantly less than the benefits posed to the school, but I felt like I needed to point out that he's certainly at no disadvantage moving schools, and that there may even be some benefits in the long term.




Cant say I agree with this. For some boys maybe, for the majority who would come into such a school at such a time I personally would question the perceived benefits to the boy. Strong links to old boy 'network' highly unlikely, ever go to a reunion even less so. With respect the school has little interest in his long term future. Wont do an OP, promise of a better education from the school is highly arrogant. How do they know where he was before was not offering just as much in that dept. I may be being cynical about the motives here and be happily surprised that there is an incredible mentoring system laid out for such boys but I will take that under advisement

 

[Tahspark]

Quick Hands something along the conceptual lines of a "points system" has been mooted.

Jaghond at post #1140 (p. 57) of the Sydney GPS 2013 thread extracted this piece from SBHS' newsletter reporting on the outcome of a meeting of an AAGPS Heads Meeting of in or about April 2013:

"Tensions among schools have arisen surrounding ‘recruitment and attraction of students with sporting ability’, particularly enrolling in Years 11 & 12. In order to lessen those tensions a ‘New Boys Committee’ was formed to gather data from member schools about their teams in Years 10-12 and the enrolment dates of their players. A paper was prepared as a draft which sets out points limits for each sport, depending on the number of players in the team. Points range from 7 in rugby to 3 in tennis. A team cannot exceed the points limit. A boy enrolling in Year 10 would attract 2 points; in Year 11 3 points. Players arriving after day 1 in Year 11 attract 4 points and no player is eligible to play if he arrives after term 2 of Year 11. Exchange students would not be eligible for GPS Competitions. Heads are considering the proposal and are awaiting an analysis of the data from schools before making a decision on how the proposal might work."

I think that such a system could restore some integrity/balance.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Quick Hands something along the conceptual lines of a "points system" has been mooted.

Jaghond at post #1140 (p. 57) of the Sydney GPS 2013 thread extracted this piece from SBHS' newsletter reporting on the outcome of a meeting of an AAGPS Heads Meeting of in or about April 2013:

"Tensions among schools have arisen surrounding ‘recruitment and attraction of students with sporting ability’, particularly enrolling in Years 11 & 12. In order to lessen those tensions a ‘New Boys Committee’ was formed to gather data from member schools about their teams in Years 10-12 and the enrolment dates of their players. A paper was prepared as a draft which sets out points limits for each sport, depending on the number of players in the team. Points range from 7 in rugby to 3 in tennis. A team cannot exceed the points limit. A boy enrolling in Year 10 would attract 2 points; in Year 11 3 points. Players arriving after day 1 in Year 11 attract 4 points and no player is eligible to play if he arrives after term 2 of Year 11. Exchange students would not be eligible for GPS Competitions. Heads are considering the proposal and are awaiting an analysis of the data from schools before making a decision on how the proposal might work."

I think that such a system could restore some integrity/balance.

Except that the recruiting begins before day 1 of year 11.


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[Tahspark]

Agreed, Inside Shoulder and for that reason extending the points system along the lines suggested by Quick Hands would probably be a better model.

No doubt if such a system is introduced it will need some tweaking.

 

[Quick Hands]

Quick Hands something along the conceptual lines of a "points system" has been mooted.

Jaghond at post #1140 (p. 57) of the Sydney GPS 2013 thread extracted this piece from SBHS' newsletter reporting on the outcome of a meeting of an AAGPS Heads Meeting of in or about April 2013:

"Tensions among schools have arisen surrounding ‘recruitment and attraction of students with sporting ability’, particularly enrolling in Years 11 & 12. In order to lessen those tensions a ‘New Boys Committee’ was formed to gather data from member schools about their teams in Years 10-12 and the enrolment dates of their players. A paper was prepared as a draft which sets out points limits for each sport, depending on the number of players in the team. Points range from 7 in rugby to 3 in tennis. A team cannot exceed the points limit. A boy enrolling in Year 10 would attract 2 points; in Year 11 3 points. Players arriving after day 1 in Year 11 attract 4 points and no player is eligible to play if he arrives after term 2 of Year 11. Exchange students would not be eligible for GPS Competitions. Heads are considering the proposal and are awaiting an analysis of the data from schools before making a decision on how the proposal might work."

I think that such a system could restore some integrity/balance.

Wheels are at least moving.