Shute Shield 2013

[Andrew B Cox]

Are we beginning to see the market rationalising the Shute Shield?

If Penrith, Gordon and Easts were to flounder, we'd be left with a 9 team comp-3 from the West, 3 from the east/south and three from the north.

a 16 round comp where everyone plays twice.

'Incoming!!!!'

 

[Knuckles]

Are we beginning to see the market rationalising the Shute Shield?

If Penrith, Gordon and Easts were to flounder, we'd be left with a 9 team comp-3 from the West, 3 from the east/south and three from the north.

a 16 round comp where everyone plays twice.

'Incoming!!!!'

Coxy, you're a bold man saying that!! Sweep your car for explosives prior to starting it, the tradionalists will have you hanged.

 

[Knuckles]

perhaps though this is not too unrealistic.

Penrith get taken over by Parramatta
Gordon merge with Norths
Manly and Warringah merge
Easts and Randwick merge................

Poido will go nuts!

 

[Knuckles]

Are these the same "influential rugby folk" that provided you with the information in your recent "latest rumors" post ?

some were yes. But I have many friends in the corridors of influence. A life long lasting benefit of being a former Wallaby coach.

It's amazing what gets discussed on a thursday evening at The Commodore!

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Coxy, you're a bold man saying that!! Sweep your car for explosives prior to starting it, the tradionalists will have you hanged.

I know Knuckles, I'm living dangerously.

I do worry, however, that the comp is perhaps losing its relevance.

12 teams may be too many. And all from Sydney.

And of those teams, many in very different financial states.

Go your hardest!

 

[AussieDominance]

just been out a long luncheon with some influential rugby folk.

the word around the table was:

1. Easts (sydney) are in deep financial shit with auditors advising them to go into voluntary administration.
2. Randwick are going VERY hard at a group of Penrith players in a package deal.
3. Peter Samu from Randwick verbally agreed to Parramatta.
4. Gordon in disarray with a power struggle at board level splitting the club in 2.
5. A number of Norths reserve grade players heading to Concord.
6. The rumour mentioning Parramatta have signed an Argentinian tighthead seems to be gathering momentum.

Look out boys, it appears the Two Blues are serious!

The Gordon power struggle is hardly a struggle. I think it will be a matter of handing the club over to the challenging group consisting of Hartill and Co.

They seem to have pretty much all the player support.

 

[Knuckles]

The Gordon power struggle is hardly a struggle. I think it will be a matter of handing the club over to the challenging group consisting of Hartill and Co.

They seem to have pretty much all the player support.

I used to coach against Hartill, very unassuming man, very intelligent man, very motivated...internally. they could do worse than to handover to him.

Only issue is though, I feel for Jason Grier. He inherited the poisoned chalice from his incompetent predecessor and had nothing to work with. Hopefully the new group will find a place for him too

 

[MACCA]

Isn't Samu currently playing 7's for Randwick?
Is he being paid to go elsewhere? Dumb question that (I know) however just wonder what motivates these guys to change clubs.

 

[MACCA]

perhaps though this is not too unrealistic.

Penrith get taken over by Parramatta
Gordon merge with Norths
Manly and Warringah merge
Easts and Randwick merge......

Poido will go nuts!

Poido would be wearing a netball skirt before that happened methinks

 

[Knuckles]

I know Knuckles, I'm living dangerously.

I do worry, however, that the comp is perhaps losing its relevance.

12 teams may be too many. And all from Sydney.

And of those teams, many in very different financial states.

Go your hardest!

same here. But I'd like to ask the question. Why do all the solutions seem to be based on removing clubs, merging clubs and combining competitions rather than looking for a mixture of both? Similar to the structure in NZ?

I don't see why we couldn't and shouldn't look to have a brief 3rd tier comp running after the Sydney and Brisbane comps have finished.

My point being, in NZ they have their club comp running while Super Rugby is on. It runs right through until about a month before the ITM starts. Why can't we do the same?

In the first year you could do the following:

Shute Shield/Brisbane club comps run March to September

9 team Interstate Club Comp then runs for 10 weeks

Clubs would be:
Sydney Uni
Sunnybank
Vikings
A combined team made up from players from Manly, Warringah
A combined team made up from Easts, Randwick, Southern Districts
A combined team made up from Wests, Parra, Penrith
A combined team made up from Norths, Gordon, Eastwood

2 more teams from Brisbane (apologies for not suggesting the combinations, I know little about Brisbane geography and club strength and weaknesses)

Top 4 finals over 2 weeks.

You would then look to bring in additional teams in subsequent years from NSW Country, Melbourne, Qld Country once the sponsorship of the competition grows enough so an airline and a hotel chain is providing contra travel and accommodation for all teams.

This would appease the 3 rich clubs who seem hell bent on caving in their respective competitions so they can go it alone.

The ARU then copy NZ and insist all Super franchises are free to sign 20 players only. The remaining 10 spots per franchise come out of a national player pool consisting of only australian eligible and based players from this third tier competition. The 5 eps places per franchise then must only go to U20 aged players who are signed for 2 years, not the 1year they are now, forcing the franchise to actually coach and develop those 5 players, not have them pack the gear truck!

The clubs would maintain their identity and the Shute Shield would then become a very important breeding ground for the next tier competition.

And force all clubs, franchises and unions to support it.

As Coxy would say.......'incoming'

 

[Andrew B Cox]

We are on the same page knuckles.

Here is a thought.

As some may know, my better half ( or three quarters) was a fairly handy netballer. Like rugby, they too had a number of state comps, but only an annual national championship tournament.

To create a national comp, they created the super league- which was the top 2 teams from NSW, vic, and SA, as well as the top team from QLD, TAS and NT playing a pre season comp. the major difference being that the clubs could import up to 4 players from other clubs in their state. They could also change their names to incorporate sponsors. Given sponsorships were not insignificant, it created a boost.

Importantly, it evolved into the NNL, and now the ANZ championship.

I reckon we have to start to play nationally, albeit at a pre or post season basis, or perish.

I would love to hear from everyone on this

 

[Dave Beat]

Clubs would be:
Sydney Uni
Sunnybank
Vikings
A combined team made up from players from Manly, Warringah
A combined team made up from Easts, Randwick, Southern Districts
A combined team made up from Wests, Parra, Penrith
A combined team made up from Norths, Gordon, Eastwood



And force all clubs, franchises and unions to support it.

As Coxy would say...'incoming'

Sounds great, instead of forceing the clubs provide them the template and let come back with their proposal of role out.

There are some team names, I would look at placing Nths with Manly & Warringah

Sydney Uni
Sunnybank
Vikings
??? - A combined team made up from players from Manly, Warringah, Norths???
South Harbour - A combined team made up from Easts, Randwick, Southern Districts
Western Sydney - A combined team made up from Wests, Parra, Penrith
North Harbour - A combined team made up from Norths???, Gordon, Eastwood

 

[Blackers13]

We are on the same page knuckles.

Here is a thought.

As some may know, my better half ( or three quarters) was a fairly handy netballer. Like rugby, they too had a number of state comps, but only an annual national championship tournament.

To create a national comp, they created the super league- which was the top 2 teams from NSW, vic, and SA, as well as the top team from QLD, TAS and NT playing a pre season comp. the major difference being that the clubs could import up to 4 players from other clubs in their state. They could also change their names to incorporate sponsors. Given sponsorships were not insignificant, it created a boost.

Importantly, it evolved into the NNL, and now the ANZ championship.

I reckon we have to start to play nationally, albeit at a pre or post season basis, or perish.

I would love to hear from everyone on this

Whatever, whether its a beefed up Shute Shield and Brisbane Premier comp or an ITM Cup style comp as has been suggested here, the ARU has to get serious about funding the "third tier". The current participation grant and performance bonus is pathetic and totally inadequate. Rugby MUST adopt an NRL/AFL style structure to prevent our game becoming an irrelevance in Australian Sport.

 

[Lindommer]

It's a crying shame JON didn't at least try to keep the ARC going in 2008. The first year was always going to be the hardest, specially in an RWC year, but I don't understand why a shitload of work wasn't done cutting expenses and putting reponsibility back on the franchises to balance their books. For starters the Sydney sides could've/should've played at Concord, Rat Park and Redfern Oval rather than Parramatta, Gosford (GOSFORD, fer Chrissake!) and the eastern team at North Sydney Oval (what clown came up with that one?). And overnight stays should've been dispensed with. I'm no rugby administrator, that's just off the top of my head. All those supposed corporate hard-hitters who support rugby needed a cattle prod to fix the income side.

A crying shame this concept wasn't perservered with. A priceless opportunity lost, for which we're now paying the price.

 

[Drew]

Agree that arc is sorely missed. The wallabies injury woes are compounded by us having to bring in players "cold", a month after playing any games at all, let alone the standard of itm or currie cup. Seems JON didn't want something he didn't institute being a success, he only seems interested in the pointy end of things.

 

[Blackers13]

Agree that arc is sorely missed. The wallabies injury woes are compounded by us having to bring in players "cold", a month after playing any games at all, let alone the standard of itm or currie cup. Seems JON didn't want something he didn't institute being a success, he only seems interested in the pointy end of things.

Hence the need for a total clean out of the rugby heirachy, establishment of a central controlling commission and investment in the game at all levels. In NSW alone, 6 bodies, plus 5 schools associations, administer the sport. Totally ludicrous and hopelessly outdated structure. Change is needed now before its too late.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hence the need for a total clean out of the rugby heirachy, establishment of a central controlling commission and investment in the game at all levels. In NSW alone, 6 bodies, plus 5 schools associations, administer the sport. Totally ludicrous and hopelessly outdated structure. Change is needed now before its too late.

I think you may be a little economincal with the numbers of alleged controlling bodies in NSW, and overly generous with the term "structure".

NSWRU, Waratahs Inc, NSW Suburban Rugby, SRU, NSW Country RU, NSW Juniors, Sydney Juniors, Country Juniors, and NSW Schools spring immediately to mind. Not counting the NSW Referees.

Under NSW Schools (counted above), there is ISA, CAS, AICES, AAGPS, Country Schools, NSW CCC, and CHS at High School level. For Primary level there is CIS, and PSSA at least.

The "hopelessly outdated structure" you so generously describe is more accurately described as an organisational structure resembling a bowl of spaghetti.

The basic thrust of your comment above is whole heartedly supported.

 

[lily]

Polding and MacKillop at Primary level.

 

[Blackers13]

I think you may be a little economincal with the numbers of alleged controlling bodies in NSW, and overly generous with the term "structure".

NSWRU, Waratahs Inc, NSW Suburban Rugby, SRU, NSW Country RU, NSW Juniors, Sydney Juniors, Country Juniors, and NSW Schools spring immediately to mind. Not counting the NSW Referees.

Under NSW Schools (counted above), there is ISA, CAS, AICES, AAGPS, Country Schools, NSW CCC, and CHS at High School level. For Primary level there is CIS, and PSSA at least.

The "hopelessly outdated structure" you so generously describe is more accurately described as an organisational structure resembling a bowl of spaghetti.

The basic thrust of your comment above is whole heartedly supported.

Hugh, I think most people agree with us. Who is going to stand up and make it happen? The strategic review, if it delivers what I'm hoping it does, must be grabbed by someone and driven through, like the Magna Carta. I reckon Nick Farr Jones might be the man. Just a thought...

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Green and Gold Think Tank will drive this through.

Also "Ideas for Australian Rugby Thread", and several others like the "Third Tier comps", "Ideal Schools Competitions" etc.

A little subproject I have is to get a bit more of a structured and logical debate going in Gaggerland on these very issues. There may even be a Blog article or two in it as well.

If we make enough noise, often enough, that is simple, logical and rational enough, someone somewhere may stand up and actually do something with it.