Shute Shield 2019

[Quick Hands]

If the Tahs can’t attract 4 or 5 times what a local amateur team can attract, then they have massive problems.

But kudos to the Tahs for attracting enough through the gate to pay one of their lower/mid tier players wage for the season..

As an aside,if the local grassroots wasn’t so strong, the gate would have been half what they drew for this game.

They also had Kings v Waverley 1sts as a curtain raiser which would have pulled a few extra in at Bankwest

 

[formerflanker]

A worrying statistic

Nah, we'll be right.
Just trying to "rope a dope" the other teams into thinking we don't have a chance to go all the way to the Grand Final. They get complacent and BOOM we hit hard with a series of wins.

 

[Quick Hands]

In the same region of the city that saw over 17k for the one game the Tahs held there earlier in the year. But if you want to believe the Shute Shield is perfect then fine.

I’ve never said the Shute Shield was perfect ever, so I don’t know why you have chosen to make that comment.

For reasons best known to yourself you keep saying that a professional team representing 7 million people is out drawing a game a game in which two amateur teams drawing from just 200 thousand people. You still haven’t made clear what point you’re trying to make.

Yes, the Waratahs managed to draw 17,000 to a ground in the same geographical area. Probably many of those at Manly Oval were in that crowd. But Shute Shield games are played at the same time as colts and private school rugby and stubbies games whereas the Waratahs had no such opposition. I’d also assume that some of the dwindling band of Waratahs supporters from across Sydney also came?

It’s not so long ago that the Waratahs regularly drew over 30,000 to home games and people would have laughed if anyone had suggested playing a game at Brookvale Oval. In fact the Chairman of the NSWRU once said that BankWest wouldn’t be suitable for the Waratahs because it only had a capacity of 30,000!

No, Shute Shield isn’t perfect, but it’s doing a whole lot better in its market than any Australian super rugby team.

 

[seven wearing six]

They also had Kings v Waverley 1sts as a curtain raiser which would have pulled a few extra in at Bankwest

Yep, those schoolboy mums and dads sure can make a crowd. But did they pay or were they invited to watch their boys run around on the big stage? My money's on freebies. Freebies don't help the bottom line (but they do pump up the attendance).

 

[Quick Hands]

Yep, those schoolboy mums and dads sure can make a crowd. But did they pay or were they invited to watch their boys run around on the big stage? My money's on freebies. Freebies don't help the bottom line (but they do pump up the attendance).

I don’t know in this instance but from personal experience the two teams/schools would have been given an allocation of free tickets. And I’m sure that any parents, grandparents, siblings and extended families who missed the freebies would have paid to go to see their family member play in a special game like that.

 

[seven wearing six]

I don’t know in this instance but from personal experience the two teams/schools would have been given an allocation of free tickets. And I’m sure that any parents, grandparents, siblings and extended families who missed the freebies would have paid to go to see their family member play in a special game like that.

I'd certainly pay to see my guy run around, too. I just think that the number of comp tickets that make up attendance figures don't necessarily make those attendance figures the product of any real fan desire to see the main event. And that's the problem currently with the Tahs. They seek other methods to boost attendance figures on the stats sheet, outside performance and fan desire. Schoolboy mums and dads could probably add over 1,000 over two teams which wouldn't be there normally. Some may well pay, but they wouldn't be there to see Hoops and KB (Kurtley Beale). They are there to see their future Wallaby have a cracker and then nick off home.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I’ve never said the Shute Shield was perfect ever, so I don’t know why you have chosen to make that comment.

For reasons best known to yourself you keep saying that a professional team representing 7 million people is out drawing a game a game in which two amateur teams drawing from just 200 thousand people. You still haven’t made clear what point you’re trying to make.

Yes, the Waratahs managed to draw 17,000 to a ground in the same geographical area. Probably many of those at Manly Oval were in that crowd. But Shute Shield games are played at the same time as colts and private school rugby and stubbies games whereas the Waratahs had no such opposition. I’d also assume that some of the dwindling band of Waratahs supporters from across Sydney also came?

It’s not so long ago that the Waratahs regularly drew over 30,000 to home games and people would have laughed if anyone had suggested playing a game at Brookvale Oval. In fact the Chairman of the NSWRU once said that BankWest wouldn’t be suitable for the Waratahs because it only had a capacity of 30,000!

No, Shute Shield isn’t perfect, but it’s doing a whole lot better in its market than any Australian super rugby team.

Two crowds a season from one area of the city. The rest of the clubs range between a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand. My point is this. A number of people both here and in the are using literally three crowds a season as evidence that the Shute Shield is far more prominent than it is. It's not the truth of the matter. And maintaining that false perception will only hold the competition back.

 

[I like to watch]

You’re original point was that the Tahs outdrew the derby, as if that somehow validated the poor crowds the Tahs draw these days.

Rats regularly draw 000’s on home games, which is a multiple of 10 of what they were drawing a decade ago.
In comparison, the Tahs would regularly draw 30k in those days,and it’s down to a third of that now.

One is relatively strong, the other on a course to oblivion.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You’re original point was that the Tahs outdrew the derby, as if that somehow validated the poor crowds the Tahs draw these days.

Rats regularly draw 000’s on home games, which is a multiple of 10 of what they were drawing a decade ago.
In comparison, the Tahs would regularly draw 30k in those days,and it’s down to a third of that now.

One is relatively strong, the other on a course to oblivion.

No, my original post was about not getting too ahead of ourselves about the overall popularity of the Shute Shield. That there is a gap between this game and the rest. And that we cannot assume everything is good or mission accomplished based off that.

 

[Quick Hands]

Two crowds a season from one area of the city. The rest of the clubs range between a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand. My point is this. A number of people both here and in the are using literally three crowds a season as evidence that the Shute Shield is far more prominent than it is. It's not the truth of the matter. And maintaining that false perception will only hold the competition back.

I don’t think people are saying that. What they are doing is noting the Waratahs steady decline in crowds and interest with an increase in crowds and interest in Shute Shield. SS also gets two hours FTA coverage every Saturday afternoon and the TV match gets a summary and some coverage on the Saturday evening news. It’s been quite noticeable this year that Ss is receiving more coverage on the news than super rugby. In other sports such as league, afl etc, the elite professional competition receives all the coverage and the next level down almost none. A common sense observation is that there is a serious problem with the super rugby concept and in professional game, while at the same time the local competition has increased popularity, support, coverage and interest.

There are issues with SS, but the fact that certain clubs dominate while others are frequently near the bottom is not particularly different from EPL and other elite competition. That said there is work to do strengthening the viability of some clubs. In England the FRU takes on that role while here we have no such support from above.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don’t think people are saying that. What they are doing is noting the Waratahs steady decline in crowds and interest with an increase in crowds and interest in Shute Shield. SS also gets two hours FTA coverage every Saturday afternoon and the TV match gets a summary and some coverage on the Saturday evening news. It’s been quite noticeable this year that Ss is receiving more coverage on the news than super rugby. In other sports such as league, afl etc, the elite professional competition receives all the coverage and the next level down almost none. A common sense observation is that there is a serious problem with the super rugby concept and in professional game, while at the same time the local competition has increased popularity, support, coverage and interest.

There are issues with SS, but the fact that certain clubs dominate while others are frequently near the bottom is not particularly different from EPL and other elite competition. That said there is work to do strengthening the viability of some clubs. In England the FRU takes on that role while here we have no such support from above.

More parity would be great but not exactly what I'm talking about. What I want to see is the crowds turning out to games and watching on TV growing. The goal of the Shute Shield should be to draw in crowds closer to 5k through greater levels of promotion both in the community (not just people affiliated with the club directly in some form or another) in which they are based and in time more on TV in order to grow that audience. Both would go a long way to helping the sustainability of the clubs.

 

[wamberal]

I am pretty sure that every Shute Shield club is doing its best to survive, and, hopefully, to prosper. There is no simple fix. Some clubs have a lot of community support, some have very little.


Having been around Eastwood in one form or another for a very long time, and having experienced the lows and the highs, I can attest to that.


We used to have huge local community support. Now we have very little, our community has moved to the north west. It is pointless talking about bringing in the locals now, they are mostly from a totally different background, ethnically, and they want their kids to study and prosper. Sport is just not a factor in their thinking.


This is part of the reality in Sydney now. The high schools that used to play rugby, particularly the academically selective schools, now play tiddley winks.


When will the next kid from Sydney Boys High play elite rugby? (I am pretty sure that the last one was Craig Wing, and that is a long time ago. Any others?)

 

[seven wearing six]

Community support is all important. Manly, Randwick and Warringah have wonderful local affinity. Their identities are tied to a place and a community. I see Eastwood in that same light, but I'll not argue that the demographic there has certainly changed and the TG crowds are the rusted-ons and player family. I love a good trip out to TG.
It is really sad/frustrating when communities don't recognise and embrace their local sporting teams. Pubs and clubs and community noticeboards should bloody well fly the colours of their LOCAL teams and show the game on the big screen and repeats when there is no game on and have framed jerseys above the bar and a tipping comp and a game-day bbq and pre-game happy-hour and do everything that they currently DON'T DO in support of a sport that is on their doorstep and has a fanbase and therefore a market for them to tap into. Instead they show NBA, AFL, lower-grade league and bloody darts. And communities don't get to know what a sporting asset they have 'cos nobody's promoting it. SS clubs do their very best to promote themselves but without the communities' support they are simply preaching to the converted. And it's only those converted that show up every Saturday and the crowds don't grow and then matches like the Battle of the Beaches make headlines 'cos a ding-dong crowd showed up. Meanwhile out at Lidcombe and Chatswood and Camperdown the same 250 fans plus 750 players, mates, girlfriends (boyfriends), parents, support staff and volunteers make up the crowd numbers.

 

[wamberal]

By the way, if it was not for the Millners, Eastwood Rugby Club would probably be a distant memory.

 

[seven wearing six]

Col. Tom Miller was certainly the type of guy that every team/community need more of. Rob Millner is still part of your decision makers, isn't he?
It will be a sad day when The Woods move away from Vimiera Rd but a major day in re-embracing that word DISTRICT that seem a bit lost in Eastwood's full title.
With public transport a major focus in that N/W corridor at the moment, and major population growth around the Hills District and beyond, new adventures await visiting supporters.
The North Ryde RSL noose around EDRFC will be lifted and new sponsorships and income streams will allow a major campaign to attract new supporters and get the big boys game out to all those junior clubs that sit within the traditional district boundaries, creating a new fan base. Very exciting. But change is scary. I hope the Marsfield mob follow you wherever you go.
As a Uni supporter, it is difficult to admit that The Woods would be a great club to follow, but as our mortal enemy I must keep that a secret.

 

[Show-n-go]

Community support is all important. Manly, Randwick and Warringah have wonderful local affinity. Their identities are tied to a place and a community. I see Eastwood in that same light, but I'll not argue that the demographic there has certainly changed and the TG crowds are the rusted-ons and player family. I love a good trip out to TG.
It is really sad/frustrating when communities don't recognise and embrace their local sporting teams. Pubs and clubs and community noticeboards should bloody well fly the colours of their LOCAL teams and show the game on the big screen and repeats when there is no game on and have framed jerseys above the bar and a tipping comp and a game-day bbq and pre-game happy-hour and do everything that they currently DON'T DO in support of a sport that is on their doorstep and has a fanbase and therefore a market for them to tap into. Instead they show NBA, AFL, lower-grade league and bloody darts. And communities don't get to know what a sporting asset they have 'cos nobody's promoting it. SS clubs do their very best to promote themselves but without the communities' support they are simply preaching to the converted. And it's only those converted that show up every Saturday and the crowds don't grow and then matches like the Battle of the Beaches make headlines 'cos a ding-dong crowd showed up. Meanwhile out at Lidcombe and Chatswood and Camperdown the same 250 fans plus 750 players, mates, girlfriends (boyfriends), parents, support staff and volunteers make up the crowd numbers.

I LOVE your passion but saying SS clubs are doing all they can to promote and that the community should just help them out of their own accord is just plain wrong

I currently work in the sports industry and a large part of my job is promotion, social media, partnerships with externals etc etc SS clubs do a fucking horrible job as a collective. Obviously some are better than others but by god they are ordinary. I know there’s only so many hours in the day and a lot of people are volunteers but surely there’s at least one guy per club who’s doing a degree in a relevant field who can use their skills to the betterment of the club

Promotion is so fucking easy to do the basics right, I just did a quick search of some clubs Facebook pages, most clubs are under 5k likes.....that’s pretty pathetic if I’m being honest. That’s your bread and butter for communicating with existing fans and often your first interaction with new potential fans

And don’t think this stops at the SS, rugby in general has a problem with promoting themselves, even little things like despite being hugely polarising players both tahs and wallabies continue to utilise Hanigan and Phibbs......like bone dead stupid to do that

 

[seven wearing six]

I'm not saying community should help them of their own accord... What I wish for is for communities to actually recognise they have a sporting competition that is theirs alongside the major pro sports that they all seem to follow.
There's been a lot of talk lately about inclusiveness. Why can't a pub and it's patrons follow and support the Cronulla Sharks AND the SD Rebels? The Tigers AND Uni? Perhaps it's just a rugby thing and not a SS thing, but players and teams wear the jerseys of a district and the district doesn't even know they have one. Oh yes, Manly's colours are maroon and white and they have a big sea eagle on their chest... I wonder what that funny blue and red thing is they're wearing with the big fish on it... Thing is, Manly people actually know - many of the other districts don't. And the FTA match of the day is always on the screen at the Manly Skiffies when the Marlins are playing and there is always a good audience there drinking beer and having a great time even though the Village Green is just a stone's throw. Should happen everywhere is all I'm saying.

 

[Show-n-go]

I'm not saying community should help them of their own accord. What I wish for is for communities to actually recognise they have a sporting competition that is theirs alongside the major pro sports that they all seem to follow.
There's been a lot of talk lately about inclusiveness. Why can't a pub and it's patrons follow and support the Cronulla Sharks AND the SD Rebels? The Tigers AND Uni? Perhaps it's just a rugby thing and not a SS thing, but players and teams wear the jerseys of a district and the district doesn't even know they have one. Oh yes, Manly's colours are maroon and white and they have a big sea eagle on their chest. I wonder what that funny blue and red thing is they're wearing with the big fish on it. Thing is, Manly people actually know - many of the other districts don't. And the FTA match of the day is always on the screen at the Manly Skiffies when the Marlins are playing and there is always a good audience there drinking beer and having a great time even though the Village Green is just a stone's throw. Should happen everywhere is all I'm saying.

Yea but how do you think that recognition starts?? By clubs doing a good job promoting themselves, especially so in non-traditional strongholds

Getting the SS on the tv at the pub, how do you think that happens? By the club forming partnerships. Unless the licensee is a die-hard fan the only way you're gonna get rugby on the main tv at a pub is by forming a partnership with them and thats not gonna happen unless teams go get off their ass and be proactive about it. No pub worth their salt is going to put a SS game on over a NRL game etc unless theres some sort of agreement in place (remembering vast vast majority of pubs are contractually obligated to show specific sporting codes at certain times)

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I LOVE your passion but saying SS clubs are doing all they can to promote and that the community should just help them out of their own accord is just plain wrong

I currently work in the sports industry and a large part of my job is promotion, social media, partnerships with externals etc etc SS clubs do a fucking horrible job as a collective. Obviously some are better than others but by god they are ordinary. I know there’s only so many hours in the day and a lot of people are volunteers but surely there’s at least one guy per club who’s doing a degree in a relevant field who can use their skills to the betterment of the club

Promotion is so fucking easy to do the basics right, I just did a quick search of some clubs Facebook pages, most clubs are under 5k likes...that’s pretty pathetic if I’m being honest. That’s your bread and butter for communicating with existing fans and often your first interaction with new potential fans

And don’t think this stops at the SS, rugby in general has a problem with promoting themselves, even little things like despite being hugely polarising players both tahs and wallabies continue to utilise Hanigan and Phibbs..like bone dead stupid to do that

Absolutely. The clubs have significantly up their game in terms of promoting the game locally. That's how you build crowds which will have direct impacts on the overall sustainability.

 

[seven wearing six]

And hopefully having the club staff that do the promo work will read this and, especially with the professional experience of SnG offering some insight, they might just tweak their tactics and get out on the town and promote their clubs to the retail world, not just rely on ineffective EDMs and their social platforms. It's great to hjave a pub partnership, but when you go to that pub and they've got no presence, nobody except the club members and players know about it so no expansion takes place.
Give them a framed Jersey to hang on the wall. Give staff some merch to wear and give away as raffle prizes. Get a SS season wall chart up on the wall. I'm just tossing stuff out there. There must be something cheap yet effective that can be done to get the brand some exposure. Get Tah man to join in team meets at the park with a bbq and balloons. Something.