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SRAU RD 10 - Force v Reds Friday 23rd April HBF Park

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Tip tackle. First point of contact would have been the head of Paisami hadn’t put his hand down.

I’m not really sure what the rule is there. I actually thought the ref was right in that because it wasn’t head first contact it’s only a yellow, but it was quite dangerous and I can understand why a red might apply.

Ah, yeah. That's exactly what Perese got red carded for.

Shame, he played very well. I actually think he's been pretty good this year, despite common sentiment. Their defence is a lot worse without him and he still carries strong.

He runs that unders line off set piece really well, gaining a bunch of quick meters and recycling the ball fast.

I wonder if targeting Paisami was a tactic. Clearly worked.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
I believe the point is having a player who can score three tries to get you over the line in a must win game.

Silly me. I am old fashioned enough to wonder what the point is in terms of developing Australian talent. If all it takes to win games is to have the deepest pockets, then we will never win, will we?
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Silly me. I am old fashioned enough to wonder what the point is in terms of developing Australian talent. If all it takes to win games is to have the deepest pockets, then we will never win, will we?

You're having a laugh aren't you, he is hardly a superstar recruit on big money, in fact he could barely get any game time Leciester hence why they were happy to release him.

I find it a bit ironic that a Tahs fan is complaining about the having the deepest pockets to win games given the Tahs benefited financially above and beyond the other teams through RA top-ups for years.

As for developing talent, well plenty of Australian qualified players in the team and i'd say the Reds learned a lot of talent that game as well.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
The bit that concerned me about the decision was it seemed like it was the result of a round table discussion rather than the captain’s call. There were quite a few being vocal about what to do , none more so than Thomas who was gesturing for the scrum as soon as the penalty was awarded.

Maybe I’m a bit too old school, but I prefer the team looks to the captain to make the call rather than start yelling out what they think should happen.

I thought about it this morning and Wrights in an awkward position, he waited for JOC (James O'Connor) to come over before making a decision. I wonder if he feels obliged to refer to JOC (James O'Connor) before making a decision on his own now. It's a difficult position to be in taking over from the fill-in captain who won 7 in a row.
 

SteveWA

Charlie Fox (21)
Silly me. I am old fashioned enough to wonder what the point is in terms of developing Australian talent. If all it takes to win games is to have the deepest pockets, then we will never win, will we?

If you are implying the Force spend more on players than the other teams you are wrong.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Silly me. I am old fashioned enough to wonder what the point is in terms of developing Australian talent. If all it takes to win games is to have the deepest pockets, then we will never win, will we?

I mean, yeah? Seen the world rankings lately?
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Can you expand your point a little? I must be a bit slow today. We need Australian qualified players to win internationals, I thought. Where am I going wrong?
Australia has fuck all money and we suck as a result.

I don't see how Force losing that game because they had some plodder on the wing helps anything?
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Silly me. I am old fashioned enough to wonder what the point is in terms of developing Australian talent. If all it takes to win games is to have the deepest pockets, then we will never win, will we?
I understand your point. Like a lot of these issues I just don’t think it’s black and white.

I don’t want a situation to arise like we had a couple of years ago where we have 2-3 starting fly half’s in the comp to be all imports, so at test level we have a dearth of choices. Nor do I want lots of spots taken up by imports while Australian talent is overlooked and I’m in no hurry for the signing of another Henrik Roodt.

But on the flip side it’s pretty clear that we don’t have enough players at the moment to fill out 5 quality super rugby teams. Introducing a few key foreign players to help make squads helps make teams more competitive and, I would have thought, helps develop talent. Even if you look at a guy like Ralston, who shows a lot of promise, there is at least a trade of between him missing out on game time with him having to lift his standard to win his spot on merit. I actually think there might be advantages to having a concentration in the imports to 1-2 teams to avoid the chance of having 2-3 foreign players in the one position. Obviously the best outcome for the Wallabies in the longer term is that the Western Force develops a production line of local talent who are all available for Wallaby squad selection - but they clearly need to be allowed some latitude to get there, especially given the set back of their exclusion from Super Rugby. (And yes - I realise that the WF already are producing local talent, but the aspiration is obviously that the numbers they are producing increase).

Having said that, if the Waratahs aren’t able to sign up a quality Australian lock or prop, I would be very happy to see them secure a quality foreign import in those spots. These are spots where we have plenty of talent coming through at the other franchises, so I don’t think it would hold back the strength of the Wallabies. Conversely I think it would actually strengthen our player development because guys like Harris, Harrison, Perese, Ramm, Bell, Johnson-Holmes and Hanigan would get the opportunity to play in a more competitive team each week and would, presumably get to train and prepare next to a few extra seasoned pros (assuming you get the right type of pros). RA could do far worse than negotiate a bit of latitude for the Tahs - although if they go the other way and demand the Tahs recruit/develop from Shute Shield than I can appreciate the longer term benefit of that too.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Australia has fuck all money and we suck as a result.

I don't see how Force losing that game because they had some plodder on the wing helps anything?

Well, that is one way of looking at it. The Force do have a few imports who are not Australian qualified. The others are older players who might impart some of their skills and knowhow to the young brigade. That is good, I reckon.

I don't see how the Force winning that game (arguably) because they had a young star import helps anything much.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Can you expand your point a little? I must be a bit slow today. We need Australian qualified players to win internationals, I thought. Where am I going wrong?

Australia also needs a competitive Super Rugby competition for these Australian qualified players to actually develop within. You remove these foreign players form the Force and they won't be competitive, an uncompetitive force offers zero development to other teams.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
I understand your point. Like a lot of these issues I just don’t think it’s black and white.

I don’t want a situation to arise like we had a couple of years ago where we have 2-3 starting fly half’s in the comp to be all imports, so at test level we have a dearth of choices. Nor do I want lots of spots taken up by imports while Australian talent is overlooked and I’m in no hurry for the signing of another Henrik Roodt.

But on the flip side it’s pretty clear that we don’t have enough players at the moment to fill out 5 quality super rugby teams. Introducing a few key foreign players to help make squads helps make teams more competitive and, I would have thought, helps develop talent.

Maybe we have more talent than we think we do, but are just not prepared or able to develop them. I was delighted when the Tahs won the comp, and I am certain that they would not have without Potgeiter. That win was good for Australian rugby, for sure. But not for long, unfortunately.

Anyway, all this is a matter for conjecture, because we never know how an alternative scenario would have played out.

My final comment would be that this sort of situation might be handled better if there was some sort of centralised allocation of player resources.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Maybe we have more talent than we think we do, but are just not prepared or able to develop them. I was delighted when the Tahs won the comp, and I am certain that they would not have without Potgeiter. That win was good for Australian rugby, for sure. But not for long, unfortunately.

Anyway, all this is a matter for conjecture, because we never know how an alternative scenario would have played out.

My final comment would be that this sort of situation might be handled better if there was some sort of centralised allocation of player resources.
I don’t think there is any doubt we’ve struggled with our development pathways. Certainly it would be great if our need for quality imports declines over the next 3-4 years. But we can’t wind the clock back.

I agree with the essence of your last point - at the very least RA should assist in proactively working to bring back targeted Australian talent and have some right to veto the hiring of OS talent which doesn’t meet strategic objectives.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
The main issue is our best athletes are divided across three codes. If the likes of David Fifita and Josh Papalii were all being funnelled into one code we would be AB level. Simple as that.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
I don’t think there is any doubt we’ve struggled with our development pathways. Certainly it would be great if our need for quality imports declines over the next 3-4 years. But we can’t wind the clock back.

I agree with the essence of your last point - at the very least RA should assist in proactively working to bring back targeted Australian talent and have some right to veto the hiring of OS talent which doesn’t meet strategic objectives.

I can understand the need for some imports, but I would prefer them to be either eligible for Australian team selection, or else retired from international duty.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Well, that is one way of looking at it. The Force do have a few imports who are not Australian qualified. The others are older players who might impart some of their skills and knowhow to the young brigade. That is good, I reckon.

I don't see how the Force winning that game (arguably) because they had a young star import helps anything much.

Helps make the comp interesting.
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
More competitive teams = more people watching = more sponsors and tv revenue = we can retain more top tier Australian talent or attract better junior talent.

That’s the way I look at it, or at least how I feel it should be looked at in a professional world in 2021

Currently 95% of Aus players are asked to earn below their market value. That’s the biggest issue. That and the youngsters we try to attract are offered essentially an unpaid internship whereas NRL is offering a paid apprenticeship
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
Tip tackle. First point of contact would have been the head of Paisami hadn’t put his hand down.

I’m not really sure what the rule is there. I actually thought the ref was right in that because it wasn’t head first contact it’s only a yellow, but it was quite dangerous and I can understand why a red might apply.
It should have been a Red, the colour of the card should not be decided by whether someone gets spinal injuries.
 
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