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Subbies 2023!

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Anyone know why Div 1 and Div 4 club championships aren’t reflecting in the Fusesport website??

Because there aren't two full rounds, CC points only count against one round of opponents.

e.g. Div 4 has 10 clubs for 14 rounds. Therefore you play 5 clubs twice, and everyone else once (9 rounds). Only fair if CC accumulates on one round. Renegades for example:

Merrylands (A)
Chatswood (H)
Rockdale (A)
Irish (H)
Saints/Cove (H)
-------------- opponents above this line we play twice. Only the games below the line count for CC.
Chatswood (A)
Merrylands (H)
Mac Uni (H)
Redfield (A)
Raptors (H)
Wakehurst (A)
Rockdale (H)
Irish (A)
Saints/Cove (A)
 

Champagne Rugby

Frank Nicholson (4)
It was the wet weather week and we are now over 1/3 of the way through, I dont think the ladder will change to much in 1st grade whereas 2nd grade is wide open.

(1) Beecroft: Undefeated and they haven't looked close to losing, no team has been able to get close to them, they concede on average 8 points a game and average 30 points on attack. The scored a big 4 try win over 2nd place Harbour last week who are their main competition. They are the easy short odd favorite's to win the comp. In 2nd grade they are 3 wins from 4 and are second place and looking strong, prioritizing the 1st grade team come finals may be 2nd grades biggest challenge.

(2) Habour: Prior to last week they were undefeated, there attack is arguably the best or close to the best in the comp, but they have consistently let in points, if the can tighten their defense they could become more of a threat to Beecroft who are the only team they have lost to. There 2nd grade are in the middle of the pack on 2 wins in what is a tight competition, if they want to increase their chances of winning the club championship they will need 2nd grade to improve as despite 1st grade coming 2nd they are located 3rd on the CC ladder.

(3) Harlequins: They should be happy with 3/5 with both losses to the two above teams. There strengths are there clinical set piece, structure and depth with 2nd grade on top of the ladder with 4/5 wins. They lack the x factor attack of the above teams but as injuries occur as the season progress their good depth will ensure they beat teams below them and are ready to pounce on Beecroft and harbor if they don't continue to perform.

(4) Knox: I think they should be praying for dry weather, there wins have come in the dry rounds. They seem to be improving and they have got some big wins in the past few rounds which I think will be big for a team that hasn't done a lot of winning in the past couple of years. 2nd grade are second last but are 2/4 in a very tight competition, so alarm stations shouldn't be ringing yet and I think they will go on a bit of an upswing if 1st grade do as well.

(5) Iggies: They won well against Knox in round 1 which suggests they were well prepared as they havent played that well since with the only other win by forefit. I think they will benefit from playing more consistent footy having actually only played 3 games in 2 months. The next few rounds are very important for them they need another win to prove round 1 wasn't a fluke and to keep motivating their players if they cant morale and their performances could slide downwards. 2nd grade are in the same boat with the same results and every game matters in the close comp, I cant see them providing alot of depth to their 1s.

(6) BOBS: They have been disappointing coming from div 2 I thought they would be more competitive, last weeks loss to know and puts them outside the top 4 whobe their main rivals for the last finals spot. They need to flick a switch and find another level a couple of easier games ahead should help and maybe they can find the right path to make the finals. Like a lot of the other clubs their 2nd grade is okay with 2/4 wins so they should provide some but not a lot of support to the main card if and when injuries or the Europe exodus happens.

(7) Savers: Zero wins including a forefit and no 2nd grade, this is a club that has alot of troubles. I think they will be regretting moving to div 3, however the drop in the numbers and quality must have schocked them, they put 2 teams together each week in Div 4 and they came close to winning in both grades losing in the 1st grade final to Harbour who are now coming 2nd. I am assuming a mass exdous at the club occured. Nevertheless my bold prediction for them is they will get a win near the end of the season at home against either BOBS or iggies as another of the struggling team.
 

Denistone_Dennis

Chris McKivat (8)
Div 2 Round 6 Preview

Hills vs Lindfield
- Fresh from rolling through Briars, Lindfield will be very confident going into this one. Looks to be very settled without doing anything particularly special. Will be interesting to see what Hills come back with after a bye and the wet weather week. Think this will be tighter than most think, but hard to go against the form team of the comp against anyone right now. Lindfield by 5.

Newport vs Epping - Massive game for both teams here. Newport looking to get things back on track, while Epping running out of changes to have something to play for later in the season after picking up their first win last weekend. Will really come down to who is available for Newport on the day. Have to go with the home side here, with the crowd getting them over the line. Newport by 10.

Briars vs UNSW - Likely to be one-way traffic here. Briars fight really hard and put some decent phases together, but just can't get over the tryline enough to pressure any of the decent teams. Best chance is to get into uni's face and put them off their game. UNSW season really kicking into gear now and appear to be a serious threat heading towards the 2nd half of the season. UNSW by 20.
 

oldmate11

Herbert Moran (7)
Div 3 Round 6 Preview

Not the best week in terms of matchups but still plenty to look forward to as we approach the halfway point of the season.

Knox v Sydney Harbour - Definitely the match of the round this week and the result could go either way. Knox, after starting slow have built into their season nicely and will fancy themselves at home against a wounded Sydney Harbour side. Sydney Harbour need to get back on track after losing heavily last week and an away win at Lofberg will go a long way. It'll be a brutal game and I think Harbour escapes with a 1 point victory. In the other games I'll go with Easts in a close one for 2nds and colts to dispatch Gordon.

Beecroft v Old Ignatians - Beecroft old boys and ladies day this week against a side that hasn't done too much this year. Could be some big scores across all grades this week if Beecroft keep last weeks intensity. Iggies will need to hang tough but Beecroft will be too strong in front of a big crowd. Beecroft by 40

Old Barker v Manly Savers - Unless savers have had a big recruitment drive in the two week break they've had, it'll be another big score line against them a long way from home. Barker win big but it'll be a game they probably can't take much out of. Manly win in colts.
 

TheBigArvo

Ward Prentice (10)
100% with my tips last week in Div 5. Onto another big week!

Bye- North Cronulla

Kings vs George’s River

The River boys will be hurting after a big loss in the grudge match with Oatley a couple of weeks go. Kings look to be on the resurgence with some good wins and strong numbers across the club. Going for Kings in a close one by 4.

Cantebury vs Dukes
Dukes have had a tough run so far this year with some big losses. Will be looking to get into the winner’s circle this week. However Cantebury at home will be tough, They’ve had a mixed bag this year but at home should prove too strong. Cantebury by 12.

Oatley vs Balmain

The Balmain boys will just be keen to play some footy after a terrible start to the year with teams that was out of there hands. Oatley have been one of the front runners of the comp so far and will have to continue the trend and tip the home team in this one. Oatley by 5

Burraneer vs Blacktown

A tough road trip for Duckmans boys to take on the competition heavyweights. Burra have 4 wins and 4 bonus points so far. Blacktown will need to compete well in this one if they want to be in the mix come finals time. But again the home team to be too strong. Burraneer by 18

Maccabi vs Colleagues

TBC- fingers crossed the Maccabi boys have more luck with numbers in the 2nd half of the year.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I'll have a crack at Round 5 for Div 4:

Rockdale (4) v Western Raptors (8) - the long trip for the Raptors, against a good Rockdale side that has seen its numbers return to effect. Redmond should have dried out a bit so expecting a fast track.

Renegades (7) v Northern Saints (10) - after a mixed opening month with some strong opposition, we're looking to go back-to-back at home. It has been a tough year for Saints so far and won't get much easier the next few, with Merrylands and Irish their next opponents. Lot of injuries at Hassell/Tantallon.

Irish (3) v Redfield (2) - Match Of The Round. Shame it's on plastic. Irish will have put in extras after an agonising loss on the bell last time out. Redfield have yet to be challenged, and there won't be much in it.

Mac Uni (6) v Merrylands (1) - the Wolves will no doubt be hungry to keep their streak going, and look a bit too physical across the park for the Beacons.

Wakehurst (5) v Chatswood (9) - Wakehurst started the season nicely but have had a look at a couple of front runnersin that time as well. I think they should have enough for Chatswood but again, could be close.
 
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Heavyd

Arch Winning (36)
Div 2 Round 6 Preview

Hills vs Lindfield
- Fresh from rolling through Briars, Lindfield will be very confident going into this one. Looks to be very settled without doing anything particularly special. Will be interesting to see what Hills come back with after a bye and the wet weather week. Think this will be tighter than most think, but hard to go against the form team of the comp against anyone right now. Lindfield by 5.

Newport vs Epping - Massive game for both teams here. Newport looking to get things back on track, while Epping running out of changes to have something to play for later in the season after picking up their first win last weekend. Will really come down to who is available for Newport on the day. Have to go with the home side here, with the crowd getting them over the line. Newport by 10.

Briars vs UNSW - Likely to be one-way traffic here. Briars fight really hard and put some decent phases together, but just can't get over the tryline enough to pressure any of the decent teams. Best chance is to get into uni's face and put them off their game. UNSW season really kicking into gear now and appear to be a serious threat heading towards the 2nd half of the season. UNSW by 20.

Div 2 standard across all grades is the weakest it has been probaly ever.. The only club playing near Div 2 traditional standard is Lindfield.

I think Beecorft would be giving 2nd Div a shake this year if they were there.
 

Denistone_Dennis

Chris McKivat (8)
Div 2 standard across all grades is the weakest it has been probaly ever.. The only club playing near Div 2 traditional standard is Lindfield.

I think Beecorft would be giving 2nd Div a shake this year if they were there.
Clubs can only work with what they have unfortunately. All they have is the standard of players and coaches that walk through the door. Player numbers are dropping, and the demands of normal life means the coaches arent able to be as dedicated as they might have previously been.
 

The ultimate ressie

Herbert Moran (7)
Div 2 standard across all grades is the weakest it has been probaly ever.. The only club playing near Div 2 traditional standard is Lindfield.

I think Beecorft would be giving 2nd Div a shake this year if they were there.
Interesting take
Is it just div 2? Or is it across all of subbies? I have watched a few Kentwell games and that also looks a to be at a fair lesser standard than previous years.
 

Champagne Rugby

Frank Nicholson (4)
Div 2 standard across all grades is the weakest it has been probaly ever.. The only club playing near Div 2 traditional standard is Lindfield.

I think Beecorft would be giving 2nd Div a shake this year if they were there.
Beecroft 1st grade and colts would definitely be competitive. But I don't think they would be fielding a 3rd game team week in week out, which is my guess why they didn't chose to be in div 2. So the question then becomes do you prefer a club that will be competitive in higher grades but only fields 2 grades and colts. Either way I imagine Beecroft will find themselves in div 2 next year and will be trying to recruit in the offseason to field a 3rd grade team.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Steve Williams (59)
It sounds like a back in my day thing to say but the standard is pretty bad compared to 10-15 years ago and even as recently as pre covid times.

Some clubs current 1st grades would get done comfortably by 2nd grades in years gone by. Still a lot of good players floating around but the difference in calibre within a team is vast these.

This is all very general and there are obviously some clubs doing well and have been steady for a long time but across the board it’s slumped.
 

Let it sing

Frank Nicholson (4)
Systems we have aren't sustainable. Interest in the support dropping off. Change in demographics and weekend options.

Nobody should be shocked.

Needs a rethink
Perhaps a proper get together of all clubs, the best minds in Subbies and key stakeholders prior to the season end would be a masterstroke.

Put it all on the table and ideally work towards a blueprint where clubs across the board can be sustainable, can grow and best practice is shared. No winners if a club is fully stocked and has no opposition to play.

As you say needs a rethink and without action Subbies will die a slow death, which can be avoided with collective action
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I'm talking wider than Subbies. The "systems" are those across rugby from Juniors through Schools to Colts.

As I bang on about occasionally, we don't have a clearly defined development or opportunity pathway for kids to get from their local village club to the local senior club. Parts of the system produce outcomes that actively or passively work against it, in fact i.e. schools rugby.

Once you get to senior level, differing agendas exist between Premier and Subbies Rugby, so whatever incoming talent gets further diluted.

So if we're getting in a room, I want every Subbies Club and every Premier Club and every Schools program and every Junior Club represented in some way. Can't keep operating in islanded mode.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Example: Northern Saints and Lane Cove got together to try and support each other and help build back both clubs. They had to Forfeit 2nd Grade in Round 2 and tomorrow's Round 5 game against us.

These are clubs with serious history, that are in former rugby heartlands. The rugby population has been eroded by the massive change in demographics in their areas. The influence of Gordon is significant in the area as well, particularly in that northern strip of suburbs behind the beaches.

Yet, we've got some strong Subbies clubs in that area - Lindfield and Forest are just around the corner. Hunters Hill are wedged between Pirates and Chatswood, with Drummoyne over the road.

Therefore, it isn't all down to demographics.

Some clubs simply run out of volunteers, or aren't able to keep the momentum going for a range of factors.

Rugby schools in these areas are running multiple XVs and yet a lot of those players don't seem to make it into Subbies or any rugby which is the real shame here.

The fact that we continue to try and have senior clubs with 5+ teams at any level is IMHO becoming redundant. And that's Subbies or Premier.

I think we need to seriously look at limiting Subbies competitions to 3 Grades + Colts for regular grades, which would be aimed at stabilising the Divisional structure and give clubs something realistic to look at when they're getting promoted or relegated. Fourth Grade gets hived off as your Old Boys competition. Fifth Grade is carnival stuff, really.

I'm not saying we punish clubs for success. Nor am I advocating we force players to split from their mates or a vibe they like.

However, unless we have a serious shift in thinking we'll continue to see clubs die.
 

HogansHeros

Bob Loudon (25)
Example: Northern Saints and Lane Cove got together to try and support each other and help build back both clubs. They had to Forfeit 2nd Grade in Round 2 and tomorrow's Round 5 game against us.

These are clubs with serious history, that are in former rugby heartlands. The rugby population has been eroded by the massive change in demographics in their areas. The influence of Gordon is significant in the area as well, particularly in that northern strip of suburbs behind the beaches.

Yet, we've got some strong Subbies clubs in that area - Lindfield and Forest are just around the corner. Hunters Hill are wedged between Pirates and Chatswood, with Drummoyne over the road.

Therefore, it isn't all down to demographics.

Some clubs simply run out of volunteers, or aren't able to keep the momentum going for a range of factors.

Rugby schools in these areas are running multiple XVs and yet a lot of those players don't seem to make it into Subbies or any rugby which is the real shame here.

The fact that we continue to try and have senior clubs with 5+ teams at any level is IMHO becoming redundant. And that's Subbies or Premier.

I think we need to seriously look at limiting Subbies competitions to 3 Grades + Colts for regular grades, which would be aimed at stabilising the Divisional structure and give clubs something realistic to look at when they're getting promoted or relegated. Fourth Grade gets hived off as your Old Boys competition. Fifth Grade is carnival stuff, really.

I'm not saying we punish clubs for success. Nor am I advocating we force players to split from their mates or a vibe they like.

However, unless we have a serious shift in thinking we'll continue to see clubs die.
I like the premise. The idea that if a club is winning games they must move up a div and field extra teams with numbers they may not have is crazy and is often going to kill a club as resources are stretched thin.

It has been good to see subbies drop a grade across the divs.

Would you eventually get rid of Subbies altogether and just grow premier rugby? Maybe to a 2 division comp.
It gets rid of 1 union fighting for their own cause and streamlines pathways...
 

21mm

Frank Nicholson (4)
I like the premise. The idea that if a club is winning games they must move up a div and field extra teams with numbers they may not have is crazy and is often going to kill a club as resources are stretched thin.

Promotion/Relegation from my understanding is quite fluid and is only ever 'offered' and not enforced. A lot of pride at stake for clubs in higher grade on the slide, and vice verse for lower clubs on the rise.

Better administration needs to be done ahead of making these decisions, IE player leave/stay surveys. i get that the data would be fairly rough, given a lot of players struggle to tell coaches if they are in/out a week in advance, but its at least a step in the right direction towards making decisions about which division to be in.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Promotion/Relegation from my understanding is quite fluid and is only ever 'offered' and not enforced.

It is phrased that clubs will be "assessed" if they fall into certain places e.g. from the Ops Manual:

1684458838039.png


Go back a couple of decades and it ws basically accepted. Times have changed.
 
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