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Super Rugby Au Final - Brumbies v Reds

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Greg Davis (50)
If someone had said 10 years ago we'd have two of the best..

Two cracking teams. I can't separate them. So many playing to nail down a start for the Wallabies.

It is amazing, come 2021 we will realise that 2020 will always be remembered as the year that Australian tight head props were being written about in main stream media, it has been an unprecedented year............and some other stuff also happened

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Desmond Connor (43)
They're competing for the #3 jersey, that's what I mean. AAA is the incumbent, Taniela is the crowd favourite. Everytime AAA goes on instagram or facebook he probably sees some highlight video praising the bloke everyone has pegged to take his jersey.
Tupou is hedging in front this year.

thierry dusautoir

Alan Cameron (40)
Does anyone know who is reffing the game as I believe this will have an impact on the game come scrum time.

I would be interested to see the stats but I think that Tupou gets the rub of the green with Berry (but i think that Tupou gets away with a fair bit at the scrum).

I also believe in a rebels vs brumbies game he pinged Sio about 3 times.

I am not saying that there is a bias but maybe some preconceived ideas and i think the scrum will probably be the biggest factor in this game.


Mark Ella (57)
We finally have a THP who can demolish people in scrums, and there appears to be some who want him bought back to Earth.

Every prop is borderline illegal - Tupou certainly isn’t doing anything off the charts wrong. Sure, it’s not Sio’s job to hold Tupou up, but it’s not Tupou’s job to hold him up either and if he keeps folding under pressure rather than staying up than he is at risk of getting penalised. The rub of the green has certainly gone against Tupou plenty of times this year too.

I actually really like Sio & Slipper, but I hope the ref lets them go at it and Tupou does a demolition job.

thierry dusautoir

Alan Cameron (40)
I think my point has been missed a little.

I am not saying Tupou can't scrum...and I am not saying Sio did not get wrongfully pinged. It is called for the dark arts for the reason and the job is to push the limits of the ref's interpretation. What I am saying is that as commentators and spectators we can agree that the scrum can be adjudicated like a lottery.

I will double down on my point of preconceived ideas by suggesting that Brumbies scrum penalty count is higher/Reds penalty count is lower than their opposition when Berry is the ref...Could be wrong, as I don't have those statistics close to hand.

Also Angus Gardiner might reffing and this whole conversation is null and void.

So to reiterate my actual point...I do not want the premier game of season to be won or lost on scrum penalties, and again does anyone know who the ref is?


Mark Ella (57)
Thierry - sorry, I can’t help you with the who the ref is.

My post was only a reaction to your in part. Over the last two weeks, and even before that, I’ve notice any number of posts and a number of comments on other forums, deriding Tupou for all sorts of reasons. Since McKellar’s comments there have been quite a few who are suddenly experts in scrumming who seem to hold that Tupou only looks good because he is cheating and the refs are helping him out. There seems to be a number on other public forums who can’t wait until Tupou gets ‘found out’ at the next level.

I realise that a lot of that is well and truly beyond what you wrote in your comment and I tried to write a suitably measured response given it was your comment that I was directly following. However even in your comment I do think you are implying that the refs are helping Tupou out.

Personally I don’t think that is the case at all. Every prop takes latitude where it is given to him. But he is consistently out scrumming his opposite and i feel deserves every bit of credit/respect for it.

To put another spin on it, if Cheika had gone into a press conference and complained about the scrumming the way McKellar did, I reckon he would have got hammered on here.

Just to balance my comment though - it is certainly not the majority. Most rugby followers I read are applauding Tupou - which is great. IMO we want guys like Tupou getting media attention to being people back to rugby.


John Thornett (49)
So to reiterate my actual point.I do not want the premier game of season to be won or lost on scrum penalties, and again does anyone know who the ref is?

What we heard from the NH when we got smacked around in the scrums in the early to mid 00's was we should focus on our scrumming rather than moaning. Now we have great props and a scrumming and its somehow a problem?

Hypothetically speaking, if all the penalties awarded to a team were/are legitimate, would you be upset? Equally, would you be cranky if the loosing team had 3 props go down 'injured' and we reverted to league scrums?


Greg Davis (50)
Maybe he's suggesting that interminable collapsed scrums and penalties is the eyesore? I'm a former back and love watching well-matched scrums. It's when they start playing funny buggers and rolling shoulders etc for penalties that I get turned off


Mark Ella (57)
Hey may do - but I don’t think there is any reference in his comment to that.


Greg Davis (50)
Fair enough. There was a great analysis on The Road comparing AAA and Tupou as scrummagers. IIRC it was very complimentary to TT, both in terms of technique and raw power


Mark Ella (57)
Yeah - on the whole I think most fans are on board. To be honest I’m am really just reacting to a small number of those peanut brained fans that can’t bring themselves to acknowledge the development in a young bloke doing well. Mostly on the Roar/Face book.

Beer Baron

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Fair enough. There was a great analysis on The Road comparing AAA and Tupou as scrummagers. IIRC it was very complimentary to TT, both in terms of technique and raw power

Yeah its not hard to fathom that TT could legally demolish people in the scrum. looking at his build and speed/strength etc. it's a testament to the opposition prop that they walk off the field at the end.


Nick Farr-Jones (63)
This whole legal vs illegal scrummaging debate is rubbish, and those coaches which are moaning about it know that as well. Every single prop scrummages illegal at some point in the game, if a prop senses an opportunity to destabilise the other prop and make it look like they couldn’t hold their own weight, they will take it. Doesn’t matter who they are.

It’s not just in the bind where this horseplay occurs, but also in the engagement and taking the hit, if front rows can sense an opportunity to make it look like the oppositions are pushing early, they will just pull back on the weight and let them push through. It’s an illegal tactic but if it earns the team a penalty and makes the opposition scrum second guess their own engagement, then why would they stop doing it?

Tupou has been doing no more or less illegal tactics then other props, however he also has a monster engine on him which allows him to do hold his own in the scrum even when the opposition are trying the same illegal tactics on him. That’s the biggest point of difference at the moment, normally illegal tactics can be countered by other illegal tactics, right now, his oppositions are struggling to do so. Hence the whinging..
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