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Super Rugby Rd 3: Brumbies v Waratahs in Canberra

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
Within reason, I'm fine with it. It's gamesmanship.

If you have the ball when the penalty is awarded against you I don't think you need to do everything in your power to try and facilitate a quick tap opportunity for the opposition. The fact that they don't have the ball already is probably reason enough that a quick tap isn't going to happen.

It's certainly not something I want referees to focus on heavily.
Fair enough.
I disagree with you wholeheartedly.
I‘m not suggesting the offending team kindly hand the ball over.
I’m wanting to see blatent kicking the ball away and walking back with the ball and then throwing it away penalised.
A quick tap by the team awarded the penalty makes for exciting rugby.
You call it gamesmanship.
The blatant examples of this are basically allowed cheating by poor refereeing.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Players throwing or kicking the ball away - and the Tahs did this a lot against the Drua - should be dealt with via the whistle until people cut that shit out.

Put it on the deck like 7s or suffer a 10m penalty. Repeat offenders or team instances yellow card.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Harris making a case for wallaby consideration. Could you look at Valetini at 6, Harris at 8. Valetini yes a definite starter in wallaby pack but could be 6 or 8. After him a lot of contenders for backrow spots ie Wilson, Harris, Leota, Anstee and Samu. I would probably pick leota and Wilson ahead of Samu for bench spot at this point.
He has had all the talent but lacked game time

Harris is a unit who has the potential to do good things, but he needs to stay on the field and turn up when it gets hard

This is still trials IMHO before the hard games start against the Kiwis
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Valetini isn't as good a 6 as an 8 for me - not as fast off the side of the scrum as he needs to be but few equals when running the ball.

Harris has the game to be a Kieran Read type of linking back row. He's got bags of pace, enough height for the lineout, decent hands, and isn't afraid of contact. But to get he's got to fight off Swinton, Valetini, Wilson, and a few others for a starting spot, and Samu's utility value from the bench is hard to go past.

If Harris was closer to 2m you'd nearly nail him on for blindside at the Tahs except for Swinton.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
Valetini isn't as good a 6 as an 8 for me - not as fast off the side of the scrum as he needs to be but few equals when running the ball.

Harris has the game to be a Kieran Read type of linking back row. He's got bags of pace, enough height for the lineout, decent hands, and isn't afraid of contact. But to get he's got to fight off Swinton, Valetini, Wilson, and a few others for a starting spot, and Samu's utility value from the bench is hard to go past.

If Harris was closer to 2m you'd nearly nail him on for blindside at the Tahs except for Swinton.
Swinton, Hooper, Harris is a pretty nice row. Maybe a year too early
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
He has had all the talent but lacked game time

Harris is a unit who has the potential to do good things, but he needs to stay on the field and turn up when it gets hard

This is still trials IMHO before the hard games start against the Kiwis
I would like to enjoy the rugby by not thinking about the kiwis.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
AFL introduced a 50m penalty some 30 years ago for penalised players buggerising around with the ball. The penalised TEAM had to get the ball to the player awarded the free ASAP or, blam, 50m up the field. This ruling also held for opponents hanging all over a player awarded a mark, once awarded the opposing player had to let go/get off the marker immediately or cop a 50m penalty.

Took about a fortnight for behaviour to change.
 

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
AFL introduced a 50m penalty some 30 years ago for penalised players buggerising around with the ball. The penalised TEAM had to get the ball to the player awarded the free ASAP or, blam, 50m up the field. This ruling also held for opponents hanging all over a player awarded a mark, once awarded the opposing player had to let go/get off the marker immediately or cop a 50m penalty.

Took about a fortnight for behaviour to change.
Exactly my point.
Would be the same in rugby.
Why don’t the referees adjudicate on this?
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Why don’t the referees adjudicate on this?

In part because teams would get the penalty then just slow everything down anyway. Take the 10 metres. Fuck around kicking for touch, fuck around more walking to the line of touch, then fuck around even more walking to the lineout for a throw
 

Silverado

Dick Tooth (41)
Players throwing or kicking the ball away - and the Tahs did this a lot against the Drua - should be dealt with via the whistle until people cut that shit out.

Put it on the deck like 7s or suffer a 10m penalty. Repeat offenders or team instances yellow card.
It used to be a thing back in the day. You didn't have to throw the ball back but if you threw/kicked it away you were marched 10. Because it's not policed you'd be mad for not doing it and getting your defensive line set, but if it was....
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
What can I say about this match which hasn't already been said. I follow my beloved Tahs to Brisbane, Canberra and Melbourne most years (but not recently due to the bushfires and pandemic) and last night was no exception. A wet drive down and back.

The match

My seat was very high up on the western side, a long way from the field which was slightly obscured by light spray, I may not've seen everything perfectly clearly. GIO's a crap stadium, the sooner the ACT government bites the bullet and builds a decent indoor stadium the better, preferably on the current pool site in Civic.

Losing Williams and Cridge, and then Turner, certainly hurt the Tahs' continuity after last week's close loss. Cridge is one of the Tahs' best forwards this year along with Bell, HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), Gamble and, surprisingly, Harris. Add Swinton, Hanigan, Hooper, Holloway, Williams and one or two reasonable backups and that's a respectable pack. The Brumbies are a much more settled side and it showed from the kickoff, they knew who was doing what and where.

I though Donaldson tried to be a bit too cute and/or smart last week; those two chip kicks to the outside backs were pointless, and that last wide pass to Turner to, hopefully, win the match was bordering on incompetent. All Ben had to do was put the ball through the hands, draw and pass and go over. Last night, I imagine after the backs coach boxed his ears, Donaldson played a much simpler meat-and-potatoes match on a heavy pitch. He should stick to this style and perfect it before attempting anything fancy.

The Brumbies back-row were magnificent; Valetini is a monster and was, deservedly, man-of-the match. I was talking to a couple of Brumbies supporters next to me and asked them what they reckon were the best positions for Valetini and Samu, there was no agreement among them where they were best suited so they agreed the coach knows best. To my eye they both look like blindside breakaways, but what would I know. We all agreed they both must be in the 15 somewhere.

Bell and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) are developing nicely, their scrummaging can't be faulted and their overall play is coming along beautifully. They can now run, pass and truck the ball up as good as any other Oz props. And they can both tackle.

Harris has been one of the good news stories for the Tahs this year. I thought we might struggle at 8 after Wells chose to wear a sombrero, but Will has shown a mental toughness which is delightful to watch.


The referee

First of all I'd like to declare I've been a fan of Nic Berry for quite some time. To my, former ref's, eyes last night wasn't one of his better games, and that's not just because the Tahs lost.

As a so-so back I know bugger all about the dark arts of the front row, so I bow to those who know better. One is my brother from Wagga, an astute judge of forward play, and last night he was surprised Slipper wasn't pulled up for slipping his bind and turning in. He reckoned the Tahs' were scrummaging straight and should have been awarded most, if not all, of those early scrum penalties. He also reckoned White was standing on the Tahs side and feeding at a very acute angle (don't all scrummies cheat like that?). The other is Pfitzy here on G&GR. Nick was mainly in agreement with my brother on the Brumbies' pigs shenanigans. So, the Brumbies props WERE infringing.

Years ago when I reffed I used to hand some old lag standing around a piece of cardboard and ask him to note penalties, scrums and free kicks awarded to both sides set out in a column. At half time and full-time I checked how I was going to ensure I wasn't watching one side to the detriment of the other. It's a very human fault to take exception to one side/player or other and watch them/him closely all match. A lop-sided penalty count is always a point of concern, especially if it's in favour of the home side. Last night's count was 14-9 the Brumbies' way, although their backrow were hard on the ball most of the match. Many of those penalties just didn't look even-handed to me, particularly those five in a row late in the match on my side. It'd be interesting to know what Berry's referee assessor made of his performance.

One thing I will chip Berry about was his time-keeping: his signalling of time off for stoppages was appalling. Twice in the first half the clock ran off 40 seconds because he hadn't put his arm up when players were being attended to. I reckon the match lost about five minutes overall because of Nic's sloppiness on this point, not good enough.


The future

So far this year the Tahs' forwards have held their own with the Reds and Brumbies; the backs haven't. There's still no ensemble play and support between the inner and outer backs and I'm not convinced the best players have been selected. Foketi never fails to disappoint and the wingers don't know how to finish. One gem in the Tahs' backline is Perese, dunno whom I'd select for the gold 13 jumper out of Izaia and Len Ikitau.

Running the Brumbies to a seven point loss in Canberra was, on one level, disappointing. Considering we were utter shite last year and had some injuries all week to overcome it was an encouraging performance. If/when we have a reasonably fit list and a few more games under our belt we'll be competitive with anyone.
Not that I accept any of your Brother's from Wagga prognostications, nor Pfitzy's, about the scrums, it is clear that the Tahs are well and truly competitive with any of the Aus teams. The test for all of us will be when the trans Tasman section starts in a couple of weeks.

Perese versus Ikita is an interesting issue. IP is the more dangerous attacking player, while LK probably has it over him in defence. LK's big left boot is also very handy. Some will say that Paisami should also be in that equation, but to me he's an out and out No 12 and would complement either of the others in a test backline.
 
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BDA

Peter Johnson (47)
As a neutral supporter I thought the game was pretty entertaining.

I thought the penalty the tahs got for 'sealing off' in the dying stages of the game was super disappointing from a fan enjoyment perspective and its that type of thing that really hurts rugby. I'm sure some of you want to tell me why it was a technically correct decision, world rugby directive etc etc. I get that. From my perspective it's an entirely unnecessary call and if it wasn't called no one will bat an eyelid. All it did was kill the momentum of the game for no good reason. Just another opportunity for the referees to involve themselves unnecessarily.
 
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Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
As a natural support I thought the game was pretty entertaining.

I thought the penalty the tahs got for 'sealing off' in the dying stages of the game was super disappointing from a fan enjoyment perspective and its that type of thing that really hurts rugby. I'm sure some of you want to tell me why it was a technically correct decision, world rugby directive etc etc. I get that. From my perspective it's an entirely unnecessary call and if it wasn't called no one will bat an eyelid. All it did was kill the momentum of the game for no good reason. Just another opportunity for the referees to involve themselves unnecessarily.
Agree.
Most referees look to GIVE penalties because it is the law and not to let the game flow if that ‘law’ doesn’t affect the non offending team.
Scrum penalties are usually a lottery and most people, including the referee or the assistant referees don’t know what it is for!
Scrums are great and an important part of the game, however a full arm penalty for a reason that is rarely clear cut is completely insane.
Referees who look to let the game flow whenever possible should be encouraged, not criticised by their colleagues for missing penalties during the game.
 
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Tomikin

Simon Poidevin (60)
It's just another delaying tactic so beloved of tired forwards and analytical coaches.
It gives a moments respite for them to rest and set up the kick receipt pattern.
I can see how the Drua would be irritated as their ability for a quick tap and go is compromised. Similarly, there are many quick off the mark 9s in the game who could ignite their team with swift reactions to a penalty or short arm. Let alone big boppers who could charge over the paint from short distance.
Brings excitement to the spectators too.
Yep, tell the refs to march the offending team 10m with a full arm penalty.
Continued infringements bring a yellow card.
(I'd add in the scuffle/ball withholding after it goes into touch too. That stops a quick line out.)
If the balls been touched after it goes to the side line e.g. ball boy or player or crowd you can't take a quick lineout...
 

Happy

Alex Ross (28)
For that sealing off penalty near the end, Luke Reimer had position to pilfer but couldn't get at the ball because the bound player fell on top of the tackle preventing it.
 
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