Sydney Colts - 2015

[Gibbo]

Gday Guys - not a note from Gus Hearl (GRFC Pres) to help clear up any confusion over the CCAS/GRFC agreement.

As stated earlier by someone there was some bad debt owed ($2900) to the CCAS that wasn't paid. The CCAS wrote this off as bed debt as they knew Gordon had no $$$ at the time.
After the new board took over in late 2012 and by chance found out about this old unpaid debt, Gus and Peter Sherwood re-engaged with CCAS. They organised via the FOGs to pay back the money as it was just the right thing to do.

GRFC is once again one of the CCAS sponsors as part of the rugby program. There is no requirements or demands on players to play at Gordon. There are about a dozen boys and two highly regarded coaches from the Coast.
We couldn't get onto Chatswood oval for Round 1 so the first colts game against Easts was played at Mingara, as well as a trial in 2014 and this year.

The FOGs maintain the sponsorship with CCAS as part of the club's commitment to helping build grassroots rugby within our catchment area. No demands are placed. It is all about a relationship to grow and foster rugby at the junior levels.

It's of Gus' opinion that CCAS don't need a Shute Shield club grandstanding in their turf and they are doing a fantastic job.
Cheers BG

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Would suggest teams playing Manly, Syd Uni & Randwick monitor the replacements .

I'd be very surprised if they didn't already do this.

It is my understanding that both team managers sign off on each others team sheets, as does the referee.

Most coaches and Managers I know are extremely attentive to what the opposition are doing regarding who is fresh or not. Parents are also fairly good monitors of what the other mob are doing.

Any manager who is not attentive to what the opposition is doing with their bench is probably not doing their job properly.

Most of the kids know each other in all the clubs, having played with and against each other at some stage at junior village club reps or school reps, and they are quick to draw attention to any untoward behaviours by their opposition.

Interesting that Marlins surpassed The Corporation's efforts in Colts 1 against the Emus (128-5) but they drew 32 all with the Emus in the Colts 2's.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I believe the referee only signs off on the score.

 

[Piller]

Does anyone know where to find the results for the Under 18 games? I can find Colts 1, Colts 2 and Colts 3, but not Under 18.

 

[Garza]

Penrith 2nd colts have historically done better than 1sts because it picks it's best players there. Who can blame them with the system designed as it is ?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

So Syd Uni in week 2 were around the 40 points cap and have been so for sometime with a little manipulation.

Simple answer to even up the competition is to reduce team cap to 30.

<snip>

To the best of my knowledge no clubs have "manipulated" the points scheme, and I reckon I am one of the few people that have actually been stupid enough to capture a seasons worth of Official data and analyse it in some detail. Some have made clerical mistakes which have either been rectified later in the week to correct the record or that clerical error has not put them anywhere near being in breach of the Cap.

In the past, Clubs with rosters of high pointers have moved players around, mainly into grade to keep within the cap.
In 2014, there was zero evidence of systemic abuse of the points system by "warehousing" high pointers in Colts2, or by abusing the Fresh Reserves provisions to bring high point players from Colts 2 as zero pointers in Colts 1.

You suggest that the points cap for first grade should be reduced to 30 points, presumably you feel that Colts 2 cap should be reduced to 25 or so?

I have previously said that there are no easy solutions, and most suggestions have unintended consequences.
Looking at last season Colts 1. There was a club that finished bottom third of the table that regularly reported teams with 37 points. They had the one of the highest weekly player points. How would they perform having to be forced to shed a couple of their higher ranked players? Over 1/2 the clubs in Colts 1 regularly reported >30 player points, with the rest of them hovering around 27-28 ish. The Corporation averaged 35 player points, and there were 3 clubs with higher weekly average player points than them.

The Class of 2104 had 64 players at National Schoolboys (4 points or better). Of these 15 went back to school in 2015 (no impact on Colts), and 13 made Australian Schoolboys (6 points). There was no Australia A selected for the first time in many years. Potentially there would have been another 10 of the remaining 36 four point players would be six point players. All up each year approximately 78 points of Schoolboys, 60 points of Australia A, and 144 points of NSW Schools and Combined States totalling 282 player points "hit the market". Most players do 2 years in the Colts meaning that the clubs need to absorb about 564 player points before discounts. Discounts are maximised at 50%, so if all of the 4+ point players are at maximum discount then 282 player points will be evenly spread across the 12 teams in the ideal world from 98 Schoolboy Rep players.

There are 12 Colts 1 Clubs which can absorb 360 points from 180 players if the cap is at 30 points.
2 years worth of Schoolboy rep players account for 98 of the 180 players and gobble up 282 of the available 360 player points cap. That leaves 78 player points left for the remaining 82 positions. These players must all be at maximum discount of 1 player point.

This proposal leaves zero capacity for anyone to play for a new club ever, or for a boy from country NSW, interstate, or overseas to join a club and play Colts rugby in Sydney.

The only way that a "simple" solution of a 30 point cap for Colts 1 could work would be for most of the top level of Schoolboy representative players to not play rugby, or to make Colts an Under 19 competition and force all 19 turning 20 year old young men into Grade Rugby after only one year of Colts post School. Quite a few would be physically and mentally mature enough to cope with that but a whole heap of them would not be ready and could be forced out of the game.

I just can not see how the proposal of arbitrarily cutting the existing points cap by 25% can actually work.

The socialist approach to establish a complete level playing field will only encourage mediocracy. This approach works with AFL, NRL and NFL because there is no other market and the competition owners never have their mediocracy exposed to open international competition most of whom are striving to win stuff and not make sure that every child wins a prize.

I am amused that the same people who complain about Wicks, Norths, Manly, BuildCorp or any others that strive to do their best by attracting and retaining the best, and giving them the best chance to succeed also seem to be the most vocal pessimists who complain about the Darkness and Sefrikans continually beating us in the Rugby Championship. Dumbing down Colts in pursuit of a socialist utopia could have long serious consequences for rugby. Take a leaf from Manly, Parramatta, Norths and Gordon's book and stop being a victim and strive to do what the other clever operators that have established the benchmark do.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I believe the referee only signs off on the score.

I defer to your superior knowledge.

I often see both managers bail the referee up after a game, and various bits of paper seem to be checked and signed.

Because the same people go into conflab after the game in the Colts matches, I just assumed that they followed same process as occurs in the Juniors, where both Managers, ARs and the Referee sign off on the Team Sheets.

 

[Dingasden]

Does anyone know where to find the results for the Under 18 games? I can find Colts 1, Colts 2 and Colts 3, but not Under 18.

Not many results to date (ie games played) but they are on Buddha. Google Buddha SJRU & view tables for Sat comps 18 Colts.

 

[I like to watch]

Penrith 2nd colts have historically done better than 1sts because it picks it's best players there. Who can blame them with the system designed as it is ?

Historically,they have done better in the 2's cos the same Penrith kids played both games.

 

[Rugby Addict]

A fair few talented Penrith boys from last year's U16 State Champs playing in their Colts 2 team. I can see why they would only play the 17 year olds in Colts 2 rather than Colts 1.

 

[back in the day]

Plenty of talk about rules and regulations on here since the "Grenade". Any match reports or news about the actual colts rugby that was played on the weekend? This forum is starting to resemble the "wider game" .... too much about politics and egos and too little about what actually happens on the field and whether the game is actually appealing to those that want to enjoy it!!

I see Gordon had 3 wins against the woodies including a big win in 3s and 2 wins and a draw last week v easts . What an about face from the past few years from a club that has struggled to field even 2 teams. I know its a long season but "hats off" to admin from Chatty to get off to such a good start. Anyone see the games? Are they strong or has the opposition been not so? Would be interesting to hear how they looked before they meet Uni this weekend.
There must have been some other highlights from the weekend. Anyone keen to share?

Maybe if we spend less time on the bashing and more time on applauding the good things at the grass roots of our game the future may look less bleak!

 

[couldabeen]

"Maybe if we spend less time on the bashing and more time on applauding the good things at the grass roots of our game the future may look less bleak"
Good call. Couldn't agree more. I have been trying to do my bit and happy to be corrected if otherwise.
I noticed when the Corp played Eastwood, Penrith and Easts that Uni dominated the Scrums. The advantages of Scrum dominance are obvious. I know that at the Corp they have Cam Blades coaching scrums across all the teams. What is happening at other clubs and how serious is the fact that at juniors club level many coaches who see their scrum performing poorly call for uncontested scrums to even things up a bit?

 

[I like to watch]

Plenty of talk about rules and regulations on here since the "Grenade". Any match reports or news about the actual colts rugby that was played on the weekend? This forum is starting to resemble the "wider game" .. too much about politics and egos and too little about what actually happens on the field and whether the game is actually appealing to those that want to enjoy it!!

I see Gordon had 3 wins against the woodies including a big win in 3s and 2 wins and a draw last week v easts . What an about face from the past few years from a club that has struggled to field even 2 teams. I know its a long season but "hats off" to admin from Chatty to get off to such a good start. Anyone see the games? Are they strong or has the opposition been not so? Would be interesting to hear how they looked before they meet Uni this weekend.
There must have been some other highlights from the weekend. Anyone keen to share?

Maybe if we spend less time on the bashing and more time on applauding the good things at the grass roots of our game the future may look less bleak!

Then don't be shy.Practise what you preach.
I would wager you are a relative of a Gordon player in their first year of colts.
Instead of complaining about the content of the thread,and requesting others to post match reports,give us your thoughts on the games you have watched this year.

 

[Tah and feathered]

This was on the Southern Districts Colts Facebook Page

ROUND 2 v. PARRAMATTA REPORT:

As expected and as noted the visit to Parramatta was a tough day, it was evident in our trials with Parramatta that things had changed at the club and they are going to have their best season in colts for many years.

The 18s started of in great style and looked like they were going to set the standard for the day and raced out to a 17 nil lead with 3 excellent tries, but in the 2nd half the attitude changed as the defense was not as strong and it looked like players started to coast.

Parramatta came home very strongly and got to 17 to 14 but the 18s regrouped and scored a good try to make it 22 to 14, but again started to cruise along and Parramatta hit back with a try on the bell. I think a good lesson was learnt, that to win a game at this level it takes a full game 60 minute performance.

3rds colts was always going to be difficult, we had a very disruptive week of training with late injuries and unavailability of players due to work and 3rds wore the lot.

They started well and jumped to a 7 nil lead and were looking dangerous, but couldn't get the next points. Parramatta started getting some good quick ball, and with some sharp backs were able to put on 3 tries to lead 19 to 7 at halftime.

The 3rds knuckled down to get back in the game and were able to get to 19 to 17, and it was the old cliche..... next score wins and with momentum behind the Souths boys the signs were good, but Parramatta were able to get a break out try to win the game 26 to 17.

A disappointing loss, but I think we need to remember 3rds have had 1 fair dinkum game of rugby this year and that was the comp game on Saturday. They have had to deal with clubs having no 3rd colts or have forfeited.

2nds colts was a classic example of coach killer! Start well then fall apart, regroup and win the game.

Parramatta came out of the blocks hard and posted an early try through sustained pressure on our line and hammered their way over through there forwards. It was a set back but we were not playing too bad and were making some good half breaks across the field and we were getting good support when we made the breaks. Slowly the game standard we set started to drop, missing tackles, losing line outs, free kicks not going out, it looked like we were going through the book of dumb rugby errors A to Z.

To our credit our defense was strong and so was our resolve. The 2nd half started no better, but we were still looking dangerous and Simike Ilufe was able to score through a forward rumble and Shane Dolye nailed a great sideline conversion and then followed up with a 37m penalty into the wind and we were up 10 to 5 and the boys held on for a gutsy win.

No doubt Parramatta are kicking themselves for the one that got away, but I think for souths to bring their C game and get a win at Granville against a good Parramatta side is a good sign for the season moving forward.

1st colts needed to bring the day home and as a club to leave with 3 out of 4 wins would be a good day but the way Parramatta played in the 1st 40 minutes they were looking for a victory to make it 2 all. Souths started well with good phases and some direct running but a knock on bought the 1st scrum and parramatta put on a big shove that sent out a big message.

Souths were making some good incisions and the backs were running some good lines and a try was denied for a forward pass and Jake Lubrano was held up after some great running and support play over 60 meters.

As seen many times the team under pressure seems to be able to get a try out of nothing which Parramatta were able to do and again and again and next thing you knew it was 17 to 3 halftime to Parramatta who looked like they were getting stronger as the game progressed.

Their scrum was excellent and they were making some damaging forward charges, which were giving their backs every opportunity to attack.

The halftime break was needed and Alex and Allan were able to discuss the game and make some changes to the game plan and the Souths players rolled up there sleeves and knew they had to play better.

It was a more determined 2nd half and slowly Souths wore down Parramatta and put in some strong performances. The highlight was a 70m rampaging Rahboni run off the back of a good Souths scrum, Jake Lubrano had plenty to do in support dodging the scattered defenders to take the final pass scoring under the posts.

Some great goal kicking by Nathan McIlveen was a deciding factor in the 27 to 17 win. Souths scored 23 2nd half points and kept Parramatta to nil - which is a solid performance, but improvement is needed and this years group is a very young group of players. We had a lot of our senior players out against Parramatta and Trent Winterstein played 1st grade, so we need to keep improving and learning to play a full game at the required intensity and concentration levels - and we will be fine.

As I said, to leave Granville with 3 out of 4 wins is a good day and not many clubs will do this in 2015. Player of the day is Tom Evans the 1st colts 15 who has joined us from Gloucester, and at 78kg has now learned you cannot run over 100+kg islander boys and it's less painful if you run around them!

Keith Holmes

 

[back in the day]

Then don't be shy.Practise what you preach.
I would wager you are a relative of a Gordon player in their first year of colts.
Instead of complaining about the content of the thread,and requesting others to post match reports,give us your thoughts on the games you have watched this year.

Thanks for you advice and your wager. I will have a beer on you at the local pub in the country town that I live in! No I am not a relative of a Gordon player or former player, from any level, colts or otherwise. I am a parent of 3 boys that will hopefully come to a boarding school in the city eventually, and as I did "back in the day" play some club rugby if they so choose to stay in the city following their school days. And No i didn't play with Gordon and no didn't attend an elite boarding school !!

Playing colts and grade rugby in Sydney many years ago was a great time in my life as im sure still is today for many that play for the love of it and for the mate ship that it provides.

Its pretty hard to post match reports for games that are 800 km from where i live and that i didnt see. You might now see where im coming from in looking for such information. Outside of the clubs own match reports on their own websites, information is pretty hard to find out here so i rely on these forums.

As a rugby coach of juniors from the far west of NSW and who comes across the upper end of the "country" talent pool at country carnivals I certainly could influence where some of these boys may choose to play in the future. But who are we?? Don't forget about us because we don't have a private school tie hanging on the wall or care about some old grudge that some club had with another from years gone by. just like you we pay for pay TV to watch rugby,We buy match tickets when we come to town, our kids wear super rugby jumpers and kick the sponsors footys etc .
There is plenty of rugby parents in the bush that are running local clubs just like many of you are, and that are also driving their kids 100s of Km/wk to play and train that can vote with our feet and visit the ALF bus when it next parks at our local footy ground.

All im saying is that this is a public forum and that there are plenty of not logged in followers that see and read what is posted here. I have been following these forums for at alot longer than ive been registered. I also know many others that follow these forums that would never register.

Keep the match reports coming because we love to here how our country boys are doing in the city and i will enjoy that beer on you while i read them!
cheers

 

[Garza]

So the moderator of Sydney Colts calls objections to farcical results of 124 to nil etcetera as not being for the good of the game , "socialism" . What about "unfairness" to clubs not having stacks of money or scholarships. Rugby is just for those clubs; bugger the rest ?



Its hard for conservatives to accept change even if for the good of the game. An uneven competition is no competition. Oh and those statistics - rubbish. The only objective statistics are game results.

 

[Dave Beat]

Cant lock this thread - but shite lets be constructive rather than critical.

Outside of the clubs own match reports on their own websites, information is pretty hard to find out here so i rely on these forums.

Some supporter's often put good reports up on there own threads on GAGR Shute Shield thread. And the threads are often great banter without putting shit on clubs or people.

 

[wreckless]

"Maybe if we spend less time on the bashing and more time on applauding the good things at the grass roots of our game the future may look less bleak"
Good call. Couldn't agree more. I have been trying to do my bit and happy to be corrected if otherwise.........

Stick to your guns @couldabeen! Don't fall for the Black Caps downfall of apparently being "too nice"!

Cheers, Wreckless

 

[wreckless]

So the moderator of Sydney Colts calls objections to farcical results of 124 to nil etcetera as not being for the good of the game , "socialism" . What about "unfairness" to clubs not having stacks of money or scholarships. Rugby is just for those clubs; bugger the rest ?



Its hard for conservatives to accept change even if for the good of the game. An uneven competition is no competition. Oh and those statistics - rubbish. The only objective statistics are game results.

Geez - change your handle to "Griper" and go and fill up the half empty glass will you!

They have too many reserves, they've got too much money, they're abusing the player points system, they're offering scholarships......how about having a whinge!

 

[forwards4ever]

Would suggest teams playing Manly, Syd Uni & Randwick monitor the replacements .

If they can!