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Sydney Subbies 2014

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Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Massive weekend for UNSW in 2nd DIV who can qualify 4 grades + colts into semi finals with wins over Newport in a double point round. Its death or glory for the UNSW boys as loses could see them qualify only colts & 4ths. If the results go the other way the Breakers could be looking for minor premierhsips in 1s, 2s and 4s.
Double point round?
 

Tommy Tudehope

Ted Fahey (11)
@Tommy Tudehope how are Redfield looking for this weekend? I assume after last years muggings on finals day everyone would be pretty clued in and pumped! Going to be 3 massive games for you blokes, all of which could go either way


Feeling good. Week off helped.

Will be a big ask to win all three. Should be three very close contests I think.
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
With all the rumours flying around about who is or isn't staying in Subbies, who can and can't field all sides in the top divisions, the use or not of financial incentives; it's time for Subbies to make some major changes. I'm a little out of the loop at the moment so happy to be filled in on Subbies happenings. Assuming the rumours are true, here's 2 bobs worth for developing the competition

Divisions based on current CC tables. You will notice all division below Div 1 are empty. This is because it’s time to start again. There are lower division Clubs working hard to rise while higher Clubs are struggling. Clubs would nominate where they want to play with first preference based on existing structures when there’s a conflict a vote will be taken by the relevant division Clubs

The reduction in the number of teams is a reflection that Clubs should not be punished because of injuries or holidays. As an incentive to maintain player numbers, every team registered beyond the Club Championship minimum will be registered free of charge. Simply for fielding extra sides points will go to the Cowboy Cup plus and match points. For example, if Knox fields a 5th grade side and Iggies forfeit, Knox will get 5 points for Cowboy Cup for fielding a side plus 5 points for automatic bonus point win – Cowboy Cup becomes basis for Club of the year, along with usual criteria.

The next big change is the points system. Higher division Clubs have become so weak because there’s too much focus on 1stgrade. Who needs anything below 3rd grade when a winning first grade can cover everything. Competition point factors should reflect the fact this is a competition about having fun. 1st Grade = x 10, 2nd Grade = x 8, Colts = x 8, 3rd grade = x 6, 4th Grade = x 4, lower grades and Halligan’s = x 1. It suddenly becomes very important to look after everyone in the Club with no financial benefit to pour all resources into the higher grades. This way only Clubs strong enough to field the sides in the division above will go up.

Automatic promotion and relegation will only happen between Div 1 and 2 and separately between 3 and 4 geographic areas (and lower divisions if Club numbers allow). If a Div 3 side wishes to go up to division 2 then it must replace a team from the same geographic area. If the Div 2 side came last then promotion/relegation is automatic. If the lowest place team from the same zone in Div 2 did not come last then it will be determined by a vote of the Division 2 Clubs to replace the lowest place team from the same zone as the Div 3 Club seeking promotion. The purpose of this is to enforce socially acceptable standards and playing strength. This should create more comradery as well as improved social behaviour between Clubs, returning Subbies Rugby to its initial purpose. Fun and Love of the Game.

This is but a thought bubble hoping to create discussion and solutions for the benefit of grassroots rugby. There is no, and should not be, any agenda beyond this.

Division 1 = 8 Clubs - 4 Teams + Colts
St Patricks, Colleagues, Mosman, Balmain, Drummoyne, Knox, Petersham, Old Ignatian’s.
2. Division 2 = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
3.a. Division 3 North West = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
3.b. Division 3 South East = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
4.a. Division 4 North West = 8 Clubs - 2 Teams
4.b. Division 4 South East = 8 Clubs - 2 Teams
5. Divisions 5 and 6 to be determined by number of clubs remaining and their ability to field teams
 

Tommy Tudehope

Ted Fahey (11)
With all the rumours flying around about who is or isn't staying in Subbies, who can and can't field all sides in the top divisions, the use or not of financial incentives; it's time for Subbies to make some major changes. I'm a little out of the loop at the moment so happy to be filled in on Subbies happenings. Assuming the rumours are true, here's 2 bobs worth for developing the competition

Divisions based on current CC tables. You will notice all division below Div 1 are empty. This is because it’s time to start again. There are lower division Clubs working hard to rise while higher Clubs are struggling. Clubs would nominate where they want to play with first preference based on existing structures when there’s a conflict a vote will be taken by the relevant division Clubs

The reduction in the number of teams is a reflection that Clubs should not be punished because of injuries or holidays. As an incentive to maintain player numbers, every team registered beyond the Club Championship minimum will be registered free of charge. Simply for fielding extra sides points will go to the Cowboy Cup plus and match points. For example, if Knox fields a 5th grade side and Iggies forfeit, Knox will get 5 points for Cowboy Cup for fielding a side plus 5 points for automatic bonus point win – Cowboy Cup becomes basis for Club of the year, along with usual criteria.

The next big change is the points system. Higher division Clubs have become so weak because there’s too much focus on 1stgrade. Who needs anything below 3rd grade when a winning first grade can cover everything. Competition point factors should reflect the fact this is a competition about having fun. 1st Grade = x 10, 2nd Grade = x 8, Colts = x 8, 3rd grade = x 6, 4th Grade = x 4, lower grades and Halligan’s = x 1. It suddenly becomes very important to look after everyone in the Club with no financial benefit to pour all resources into the higher grades. This way only Clubs strong enough to field the sides in the division above will go up.

Automatic promotion and relegation will only happen between Div 1 and 2 and separately between 3 and 4 geographic areas (and lower divisions if Club numbers allow). If a Div 3 side wishes to go up to division 2 then it must replace a team from the same geographic area. If the Div 2 side came last then promotion/relegation is automatic. If the lowest place team from the same zone in Div 2 did not come last then it will be determined by a vote of the Division 2 Clubs to replace the lowest place team from the same zone as the Div 3 Club seeking promotion. The purpose of this is to enforce socially acceptable standards and playing strength. This should create more comradery as well as improved social behaviour between Clubs, returning Subbies Rugby to its initial purpose. Fun and Love of the Game.

This is but a thought bubble hoping to create discussion and solutions for the benefit of grassroots rugby. There is no, and should not be, any agenda beyond this.

Division 1 = 8 Clubs - 4 Teams + Colts
St Patricks, Colleagues, Mosman, Balmain, Drummoyne, Knox, Petersham, Old Ignatian’s.
2. Division 2 = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
3.a. Division 3 North West = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
3.b. Division 3 South East = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
4.a. Division 4 North West = 8 Clubs - 2 Teams
4.b. Division 4 South East = 8 Clubs - 2 Teams
5. Divisions 5 and 6 to be determined by number of clubs remaining and their ability to field teams


I think you've nailed it here.

Personally I'd like to see more CC points for Halligans as it rewards clubs who are making an effort to field an additional team, ESP in the lower divisions when you are looking to grow.

Shaping up as an interesting year in 2015 with no Campbelltown, Hornsby and the 'enforcement' of amateurism.
 

Heavyd

Cyril Towers (30)
[
Division 1 = 8 Clubs - 4 Teams + Colts
St Patricks, Colleagues, Mosman, Balmain, Drummoyne, Knox, Petersham, Old Ignatian’s.
2. Division 2 = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
3.a. Division 3 North West = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
3.b. Division 3 South East = 8 Clubs - 3 Teams + Colts
4.a. Division 4 North West = 8 Clubs - 2 Teams
4.b. Division 4 South East = 8 Clubs - 2 Teams
5. Divisions 5 and 6 to be determined by number of clubs remaining and their ability to field teams[/quote]



Certainly some interesting thoughts and not a bad "thought bubble" to kick it off. The status quo thinking for next year just wont cut it.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
I think you've nailed it here.

Personally I'd like to see more CC points for Halligans as it rewards clubs who are making an effort to field an additional team, ESP in the lower divisions when you are looking to grow.


A regular Halligan side indicates one of two things:

1) Your club has a great social aspect, which means CC points aren't the goal of your Halligan side.

2) Your club has a lot of competition for spots, which means your CC points benefit from the strength of those numbers pushing upwards.

Therefore, no need for Halligan to be a competitive grade.

I personally think that Halligan should primarily be a Masters (35+ competition) with the associated Law variations.

Cutting the 5th Grade is definitely the way to go, and I'd even look to cutting 4th Grade due to time considerations for running a club.

Amateurism isn't going to work, so I say have full-blown competition, drop the bottom two from Premier Rugby and stabilise every Division at 10.

Simple promotion and relegation, with a requirement for Colts in the top three Subbies Divisions, and now you're talking.
 

Prodigy

Syd Malcolm (24)
A regular Halligan side indicates one of two things:

1) Your club has a great social aspect, which means CC points aren't the goal of your Halligan side.

2) Your club has a lot of competition for spots, which means your CC points benefit from the strength of those numbers pushing upwards.

Therefore, no need for Halligan to be a competitive grade.

I personally think that Halligan should primarily be a Masters (35+ competition) with the associated Law variations.

Cutting the 5th Grade is definitely the way to go, and I'd even look to cutting 4th Grade due to time considerations for running a club.

Amateurism isn't going to work, so I say have full-blown competition, drop the bottom two from Premier Rugby and stabilise every Division at 10.

Simple promotion and relegation, with a requirement for Colts in the top three Subbies Divisions, and now you're talking.


So if you cannot field a colts team, you would have to go back to a two team competition????
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Yes. The aim should be to grow the game by growing your club. If you can't get a Colts side going, then you're not looking at your long-term future.

It would be U21 Colts to start with, then go into U20 Colts to align with the international requirement.
 

Prodigy

Syd Malcolm (24)
Yes. The aim should be to grow the game by growing your club. If you can't get a Colts side going, then you're not looking at your long-term future.

It would be U21 Colts to start with, then go into U20 Colts to align with the international requirement.


That's a ridiculous assumption! What if you are a club without a junior system, or in an area where there are a number of clubs in a short distance, i.e. Beecroft, Epping, Eastwood, Macquarie Uni, Lane Cove, Old Iggies…...
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Is a better plan than "piss and moan" or "just say it can't be done". Go line up with the NRC haters, if that's your bag.

Subbies want to punish clubs like Campbelltown for not fielding grades, but won't enforce Colts in the to two divisions. How does that assist growth of the game?

And don't run the "you've got no idea how hard it is to run a club" shit. I busted my arse and risked my job and marriage to help a club stay afloat when no one else would step up. I'm happy to say it's grown since then and now features a junior representation.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
I'm happy to say it's grown since then and now features a junior representation.


I'm even happier to say that I'm no longer involved, because ungrateful pricks give me the irrits.


So in Fourth Div, Irish got up in 2nd Div with a close one over Redfield OBs, but the latter took out 1st and 3rd Grade. Great work ROBs. If I wasn't twice your average age, with all the shit that comes with it, I might come play for you ;)
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I'm with Prodigy here, Nick.

We decided not to field a colts side at Kings this season, for the first time in ages.

We were strapped for time and cash, and didn't have the anything near the numbers required at the start of the season. Also the change to 3rd div where Colts don't play at the same location as the rest of the club was a killer.

Instead of subjecting kids to a season littered with big losses, forfeits and constant phone calls and pleas to 'bring mates' we decided to take the blokes we did have and fold them into grade.

It's not a case of 'try harder', that's bullshit. The blokes on here who help run clubs are working fucking hard as it is, and sometimes it's just beyond you. We decided to put our limited resources into our (struggling) grade sides.
.
 

Seagull Butler

Herbert Moran (7)
That's a ridiculous assumption! What if you are a club without a junior system, or in an area where there are a number of clubs in a short distance, i.e. Beecroft, Epping, Eastwood, Macquarie Uni, Lane Cove, Old Iggies….


Easiest Solution here - restrict the Sydney grade clubs to only one or 2 colts teams. We (Hunters Hill) have been lucky to have some great colts over the last few years who have recruited their mates and also to have a brilliant Juniors club, but we notice a big disconnect between the juniors and seniors because of both Schoolboy rugby taking over and then the large number of colts teams at the grade clubs.

Also Colts at u21 is too old. Change it to 20 to allow 17/18 yr olds to compete without fear of getting belted every weekend, and we will get the guys just out of school to continue playing rugby, rather than just giving it away.
 
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