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Sydney Subbies 2014

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barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Why is that?

Remember their 4s last year was a lot of ex-1st graders, they were a great side until injuries (and the mighty KOBs 4s) hit them.
 

Prodigy

Syd Malcolm (24)
Subbies have made a decision to exclude BOBs 4th grade team from the finals! Not bloody happy when you have plenty of clubs with social lower grade teams!


That's pretty ordinary. If it is because of the quality of players in the team, then Subbies need to have a good hard look at a number of other clubs, particularly one playing in Div 3, whose players only qualified in the last four rounds. In fact, players in key positions have played as many, if not more, games in the top two grades as they have in the grade in question
 

Ozzie Bob

Ted Thorn (20)
That's pretty ordinary. If it is because of the quality of players in the team, then Subbies need to have a good hard look at a number of other clubs, particularly one playing in Div 3, whose players only qualified in the last four rounds. In fact, players in key positions have played as many, if not more, games in the top two grades as they have in the grade in question

I can copy and paste our club presidents email (BUT WON'T!) but here are some of the reasons

*Subbies are clamping down on stacked teams, but looking mainly at div 1 and two

* Our 4th grade team does contain at least 5 players who have previously played 1st grade in the last 10 years. A lot of them now have families and young children and were a group of mates playing together.

* We were short on numbers this year and as a result some of these players HELPED the club out by playing multiple grades. Subbies have punished us by saying that we didnt have 11 players who had played enough games solely in the lower grades.

THIS will have ramifications. I wouldn't be surprised to see the players who are mates and enjoying playing a lower level of rugby leave altogether next year.

I would rather subbies make examples of clubs who pay players rather than punishing a group of guys who have served BOBs over the last 10 years enjoying some less serious rugby.

I will say i hope Lindfield had nothing to do with this!
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
And what about the clubs who aren't fielding the required Colts sides? This is madness from Subbies. Pick your battles Tim, you goose!
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Jeez that's a shocker.

We have had a similar situation for the past few seasons, a group of blokes who probably could play higher but have stuck together in 4s for social/family reasons (they are getting married, having kids and can't train or do late arvo Saturdays).

It's probably not the best thing for the club or the competition, but it is what these blokes want to do so you have to respect that. Booting such a side out of the finals is a big step.
.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
After sleeping on it, I sort of see the point; if you're only playing socially, finals don't matter. Too bad for the rest of the team if you get booted for four guys though!
 

Heavyd

Cyril Towers (30)
I can copy and paste our club presidents email (BUT WON'T!) but here are some of the reasons

*Subbies are clamping down on stacked teams, but looking mainly at div 1 and two

* Our 4th grade team does contain at least 5 players who have previously played 1st grade in the last 10 years. A lot of them now have families and young children and were a group of mates playing together.

* We were short on numbers this year and as a result some of these players HELPED the club out by playing multiple grades. Subbies have punished us by saying that we didnt have 11 players who had played enough games solely in the lower grades.

THIS will have ramifications. I wouldn't be surprised to see the players who are mates and enjoying playing a lower level of rugby leave altogether next year.

I would rather subbies make examples of clubs who pay players rather than punishing a group of guys who have served BOBs over the last 10 years enjoying some less serious rugby.

I will say i hope Lindfield had nothing to do with this!


So the rational is that BOBs dont have enough eligible 4th graders?
With clubs folding left right and centre I wouldnt think it in ayones interest to smashed BOBs with any serious penalties.
 

BPRC

Bob McCowan (2)
Hello Rugby Fans,

Just a quick update - and request. For those interested in how Div 2 would go against Div 3 make sure you get down to Brookvale Oval at 1pm on Sunday 28 September. Watch some of the best grassroots rugby going around followed by NRC development squads then the main game of the North Harbour Rays vs Greater Sydney Rams.

The reason for briefly appearing on this thread is prompted by Barker's dilemma. The BPRC match is not supported or being run by subbies. The players just happen to be invited from the first grade sides in the Division 2 and Division 3 sides playing in the Sydney competitions.

The teams are listed (as they currently stand pre possible finals injuries) on the Barbarian Park thread and would love to hear predictions, thoughts or slanderous comments on the selections.
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
I can copy and paste our club presidents email (BUT WON'T!) but here are some of the reasons

*Subbies are clamping down on stacked teams, but looking mainly at div 1 and two

* Our 4th grade team does contain at least 5 players who have previously played 1st grade in the last 10 years. A lot of them now have families and young children and were a group of mates playing together.

* We were short on numbers this year and as a result some of these players HELPED the club out by playing multiple grades. Subbies have punished us by saying that we didnt have 11 players who had played enough games solely in the lower grades.

THIS will have ramifications. I wouldn't be surprised to see the players who are mates and enjoying playing a lower level of rugby leave altogether next year.

I would rather subbies make examples of clubs who pay players rather than punishing a group of guys who have served BOBs over the last 10 years enjoying some less serious rugby.

I will say i hope Lindfield had nothing to do with this!

This whole thing stinks. I thought I'd call some guys I know at Lindfield and I doubt it was them. They only found out about it after the cut off time to put a team in. So they've gained absolutely nothing by BOBs getting shafted. UNSW goes straight through to next week.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Haha so UNSW go through? How fitting. The team that won 4s last season with a late season surge lead by players waaaay too good for the grade, who (for some strange reason) weren't around the low grades earlier in the season.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ozzie Bob

Ted Thorn (20)
This whole thing stinks. I thought I'd call some guys I know at Lindfield and I doubt it was them. They only found out about it after the cut off time to put a team in. So they've gained absolutely nothing by BOBs getting shafted. UNSW goes straight through to next week.

I agree Lindfield had nothing to do with it, so i will take back that comment.

I just think this stinks when you compare it to an Eastern Suburbs club that have subbies immortal Jake Havebond running around in 4th grade all year and winning a title undefeated!

The competition committee should have made this decision weeks ago so that Lindfield could have played this weekend!
 

Heavyd

Cyril Towers (30)
DIV 2 Semi Wrap

A big upset on the weekend with Lindfield pipping the all conquering Blue Mountains in 3rd grade. Lindfield played out of their skins and the wet slippery conditions appeared to limit the Mountains big mens mobility. I think Mountains will have to much for UNSW this week but if its wet again anything could happen.

The other talking point was Hunters Hill demolition of Forest in 1st grade. It was men vs boys stuff with a shell shocked Forest 8 shunted around the park by the big Hunters Hill pack. With 3 former internationals "recruited" to HH mid season Brothers must be looking nervously at this weekends final clash.

But the story of the day had to be Newport who qualified 1sts, 2nds and 4ths straight into the GF edging out Brothers in two thrillers.

Finals
1st - Brothers vs Hunters - my tip Hunters
2nds- Brothers vs Blue Mountains - my tip Mountains
Colts - BOBs vs UNSW - my tips BOBS
3rds - Blue Mountains vs UNSW - my tip Mountains
4ths - Hunters vs UNSW - my tip Hunters

Thoughts?
 

Monty Python

Ted Fahey (11)
Got a question for the brains trust:

How is it fair that a sin bin is the same amount of time in 1st grade which has a total of 80 minutes game time, as it is in 4th grade which has 50 minutes of game time?

Observed a 4th grade grand final on Saturday with two yellow cards to the same team, which overlapped by about 6 or 7 minutes I think, which lost them the game. Two tries scored in that sin-bin period against them.

Putting aside any peripheral questions about the ref's questionable decisions and / or the need for a team to play by the rules - consider this:

* two players in the bin in 4th grade means 20 mins out of 50 mins with 14 players - nearly 1/2 game.

* two players in the bin in 1st grade means 20 mins out of 80 mins with 14 players - only 1/4 of the game.

That's a massive increased penalty to a team in the lower grades compared with the higher grades.

Shouldn't the sin-bin time be graduated with the game length, or perhaps least one time (say 5 or 7 mins) for 3s and 4s, and a longer time (say 10 mins) for 1s and 2s ??!?
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
See your point about yellow cards in lower grades.

The question I guess is: if it IS a lower grade, why the hell are you getting carded? Not sheep stations, and if winning is that important, just don't do silly things.

There is an old adage that rings true through every era of sport: if you don't want to get penalised, don't give the ref a reason.
 

Monty Python

Ted Fahey (11)
See your point about yellow cards in lower grades.

The question I guess is: if it IS a lower grade, why the hell are you getting carded? .

Well, alluded to it in the earlier post re comment on Ref's decisions - one was apparently because "it was cynical" (a quote of the ref's explanation when questioned by the captain I believe) when the yellow card recipient played the ball on the ground or did something similarly stupid at the breakdown - but that doesn't seem to me to be worth a send off in a GF. The other penalty was for a shoulder charge, and had both assistant refs providing their input. I saw the tackle and disagree, but won't argue that one.

Anyway, as I said, whether deserved, or whether a stupid decision from the ref, they have a HUGE impact when the halves are only 25 minutes. Out of proportion. Can this be addressed by Subbies in future rule reviews?
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Its still a game of rugby. Its the same length as all the other games in that Grade for the season. The fact that its a GF shouldn't affect the referee's decision.

If you're trying to win the game through cynicism, the punishment is the same.

EDIT: the belief that its different "because its finals" is very Rugby League...
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I think some school associations play 5 minutes for Yellow Cards in the U13-U15's which are usually only 20 or 25 minute halves.

Difference being in Subbies is that you don't have to front to the Head of Sport after a Card, or get a detention as happens in some Schools.:)
 

Monty Python

Ted Fahey (11)
Its still a game of rugby. Its the same length as all the other games in that Grade for the season. The fact that its a GF shouldn't affect the referee's decision.

If you're trying to win the game through cynicism, the punishment is the same.

EDIT: the belief that its different "because its finals" is very Rugby League.

I'm not suggesting it should be different for the GF. I'm suggesting it should be different all season. Some sort of scaling for the length of the game, or 10 for 1s and 2s, and 7 for 3s and 4s, or something of that nature. It's just the fact that it's the GF that highlights the inequity / unfairness all the more...
 
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