Sydney Subbies 2022

[C.Dark]

The constable of darkness returns after some time away for the much anticipated tips from the station

Redfield v Canterbury
This ones easy, even for the thin wrists of wredfield, I don’t expect many to travel if any at all
Redfield win 28-0

manly v Merrylands
Here it is folks, punch your tickets, clear your pipes, empty your sacks it’s the match of the round! Manly looking tough through the season but in the eyes of the constable not tough enough, my blokes to upset the almond milk all stars here in an absolute spectacle of a game. She’ll be a wet one and no team likes it sloppier than the henchmen from holroyd
Merrylands win 14-10

HAC v epping
Not much in this going by their last encounter, coach Protestant (or whatever his name is) looking to boost the Epping 5 dragons for and against this week in a big way
Epping win 50+

harbour v saints
The taints really struggling to get out of first gear and Sydney hardly rugby club looking to cement their spot up high in the tower of terror (with one grade… yawn) this one’s not going to be pretty
Sydney win 40+

Renegades v Chatswood
I told you all, I told you twice watch out watch out for the men of mice! The mouse hill penetrators looking to go 3 from 3 out at plipzys playhouse in their late surge towards the finals, stags to improve on last rounds performance but just fall short to the pride of the west
Renegades win 15-7

Mac uni v raptors
Uni at home in the wet to a team facing numbers challenges looks to be the safe bet, but with a team like the raptors you never know, on their day with the right numbers they can be a pretty difficult plum to poach.
Considering that though
Uni win 21-5

 

[Mangoman]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

 

[WoodyWoodsman]

Current Div 4 Championship if my numbers are right - quite a gap from 4 to 5 and then cliff face to 6!

Harbour	1670
Epping	1518
Merrylands	1480
Savers	1456
Redfield	1102
Mac Uni	674
Renegades	656
Raptors	584
Chatswood	554
Saints	420
Canterbury	420
HAC	394

How do Harbour get to 1670 with one side?

 

[Pfitzy]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal

Agreed - it works best for a full home/away in the timeframe.

Not sure about Colleagues or Mosman playing a team down in the lower divisions tho. They did that back in 2007 when I started, with Colleagues 6s playing in the place of a Convicts 2nd Grade. Was good for their Halligan Cup stats but they were playing some pretty tough games.

I think your comp format is about right, and that Colts are going to continue to be difficult for clubs in the Div 3 borderline like Valley and Quins.

 

[Pfitzy]

How do Harbour get to 1670 with one side?

Technically their 2nd Grade are all registered under Sydney Harbour. So they're effectively 2 grades, despite the drastic difference in livery.

 

[Prodigy]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

I had suggested something similar in a conversation with some of the guys at Epping. My structure was a little different though.

Div1	Div 2	Div3	Div4	Radford	Meldrum
4+C	3+C	3	2	C	Extra Teams
Blue Mountains	Petersham/Forest	Beecroft	Blacktown	Beecroft	Colleagues
Colleagues	Barker	Briars	Chatswood	Mac Uni	Waverley
Drummoyne	Hawkesbury Valley	Epping	HAC	Briars	Mosman
Hunters Hill	Hills	Harlequins	Harbour	Iggies	Mountains
Mosman	Knox	Mac Uni	Iggies	Saints	Petersham/Forest
St Pats	Lindfield	Merrylands	Saints	Wakehurst	Newport
Waverley	Newport	Redfield	Convicts	Mosman	Hills
Petersham/Forest	UNSW	Savers	Kings Old Boys	Colleagues	Lindfield

All other clubs would fall into the Division 5 (one team) competition: Canterbury, Raptors, Menai, Irish, Wakehurst, SeaLice, Burraneer, Brothers, Balmain, Oatley, Dukes, Lane Cove.
If any of them could prove numbers for two team, they would potentially enter Division 4.
Radford Cup runs for the full season for those clubs as well.
The Meldrum Cup becomes a competition with a full home and away season for clubs with the extra teams from the change in structure. It would be considered as each club's next grade after their obligations.
Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

 

[Pfitzy]

Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

Good point. Have always found the "4 games and you start paying" a bit random. It is proportional tho I believe so e.g. if you play 7 games of a 14 week season it is only 50%?

I think I prefer the structure you and @Mangoman have above as far as Colts not being compulsory for Div 3 - while I understand the *original* reasoning, it is a slog trying to get Colts going.

We'll give it a shot next year with a few current guys and some juniors from local clubs and league, but lot of work as Epping can no doubt attest.

 

[WestCoast]

From my slight Cluch viewing of Div 2, I dont rate UNSW, Hills, Lindfield or Barker. Sloppy across the park and can only rack up wins against the lower teams. No structure. The teams below them are playing a poor standard as well as would do good from Subbies slotting a Div 3 Comp in where they can rebuild.

DD - I feel that Knox will be the only team dropping down to Div 2. Every other team is a cut above Div 2. No team from Div 2 would compete in Div 1. Every first grade team will get 30-40 put on them by the teams up here.

Interesting take when UNSW are the only team to beat Newport this year in all grades except colts.

 

[Eastcoast]

Interesting take when UNSW are the only team to beat Newport this year in all grades except colts.

A few points to take here;
- Was this when UNSW stacked their lower grades
- Was this when UNSW was playing dual registered players
- This game appeared to be at DP
- Newport appeared to be severely undermanned on that day which happens when you play away from home
- Would this result be different at Porters? - Yes

You may have beaten Newport - but were smashed by Valley. So that still doesnt win the Barraclough.

 

[En Gage]

I had suggested something similar in a conversation with some of the guys at Epping. My structure was a little different though.

Div1	Div 2	Div3	Div4	Radford	Meldrum
4+C	3+C	3	2	C	Extra Teams
Blue Mountains	Petersham/Forest	Beecroft	Blacktown	Beecroft	Colleagues
Colleagues	Barker	Briars	Chatswood	Mac Uni	Waverley
Drummoyne	Hawkesbury Valley	Epping	HAC	Briars	Mosman
Hunters Hill	Hills	Harlequins	Harbour	Iggies	Mountains
Mosman	Knox	Mac Uni	Iggies	Saints	Petersham/Forest
St Pats	Lindfield	Merrylands	Saints	Wakehurst	Newport
Waverley	Newport	Redfield	Convicts	Mosman	Hills
Petersham/Forest	UNSW	Savers	Kings Old Boys	Colleagues	Lindfield

All other clubs would fall into the Division 5 (one team) competition: Canterbury, Raptors, Menai, Irish, Wakehurst, SeaLice, Burraneer, Brothers, Balmain, Oatley, Dukes, Lane Cove.
If any of them could prove numbers for two team, they would potentially enter Division 4.
Radford Cup runs for the full season for those clubs as well.
The Meldrum Cup becomes a competition with a full home and away season for clubs with the extra teams from the change in structure. It would be considered as each club's next grade after their obligations.
Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

 

[Pfitzy]

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

Look I *think* we'll be good for 2 Grades next year, but who knows what will change between now and then?

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Think you would have to take geography into account for the Div 5 carve-up. Brothers and Wakehurst in a southern-Sydney dominated group doesn't work. Oatley is in the northern-Sydney based group. So, agree with the general idea however the closer the games are geographically the easier the clubs will find it to get a team there.

 

[Pfitzy]

Think you would have to take geography into account for the Div 5 carve-up. Brothers and Wakehurst in a southern-Sydney dominated group doesn't work. Oatley is in the northern-Sydney based group. So, agree with the general idea however the closer the games are geographically the easier the clubs will find it to get a team there.

That's true - one of the things that made the single-Grade comp easier on the northern beaches for years was proximity.

The longer term issue if you grow into 2 Grades and then are forced to travel anyway, and likely lose some guys because of it.

 

[Prodigy]

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

Oversight on my behalf. renegades in division 4 pushing Kings or Convicts down

 

[Mangoman]

Think you would have to take geography into account for the Div 5 carve-up. Brothers and Wakehurst in a southern-Sydney dominated group doesn't work. Oatley is in the northern-Sydney based group. So, agree with the general idea however the closer the games are geographically the easier the clubs will find it to get a team there.

While I agree that the geographical split works in theory, having teams more akin to a genuine 4th grade playing against teams who wouldn’t be out of place in 2nd grade (or partially in 1sts) becomes a farce. And that drives players away when you have a cricket score smacking you in the face each weekend rather than a chance at a competitive matchup.

 

[Funny]

Canterbury have pulled the pin on 1st grade again tomorrow. Sad to see them not get thru the year.

Congrats to Paul Hewett on playing his 400th game for Hawkesbury College tomorrow. Been a long season but the boys keep turning up and playing 1 1/2 or 2 full games every weekend. and that's all you can ask for!

 

[Funny]

While I agree that the geographical split works in theory, having teams more akin to a genuine 4th grade playing against teams who wouldn’t be out of place in 2nd grade (or partially in 1sts) becomes a farce. And that drives players away when you have a cricket score smacking you in the face each weekend rather than a chance at a competitive matchup.

100% agree.

 

[Prodigy]

Barker forfeiting second grade. Terrible news for our lower grades guys. Got stitched up by Uni last time we played them and now again.
Thanks Barker!

 

[qwerty123]

Barker forfeiting second grade. Terrible news for our lower grades guys. Got stitched up by Uni last time we played them and now again.
Thanks Barker!

I see that in everyone's predicted divisions for 2023 Barker is included in div 2. Surely this can't be allowed to happen if they can only field 1 grade and u21s at this point in the season.