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Sydney Subbies 2022

Mangoman

Allen Oxlade (6)
could just be a bloke with the same name scoring 2 tries at outside centre
Also, posted to his Instagram of him watching the game yesterday. Can’t really see that being the case unless they’re extremely unfortunate to have that be the case.
 

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Funny

Stan Wickham (3)
Does it fit under the rule that you have to wait a year after having a professional contract? NRL counts!

100% him playing!
 

Mangoman

Allen Oxlade (6)
Haven’t got a clue about that, I think it only ever referred to Union contracts but not sure.

If it was at the Kentwell/Barraclough level, I could MAYBE understand it (hell, a few years ago Ryan Cross, Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell were playing in that competition).

But in the Jeffrey Cup, it seems a little bit like overkill...most of the clubs there are at about 3rd or 4th grade level. A tad unfair...
 

Waterloo_Ned

Herbert Moran (7)
Have they found a date for Iggies? Lindfield takes up your last wet weather week according to the current draw.

We are trying our best. I believe we have a tentative booking at Woollahra for a night game midweek, but whether we can get Iggies to come out and play it I am not so sure.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Does it fit under the rule that you have to wait a year after having a professional contract? NRL counts!

Looking through the Subbies Ops manual, it does not mention the terms "league", "rugby league", or "NRL" at any point.

The term "contract" is only used in this context (two different sections but same content):

a) No player having held a professional rugby union contract in the previous or current calendar year may be registered. Dispensation may be requested via the Integrity Committee.

The term "professional" is used in the above and in the Not Permissible section of Expenses under the Amateur conditions:

"Any expenses not directly associated with playing for the club, including services in kind (e.g. landscaping, professional services, travel expenses) cannot be paid."

So there is literally nothing about rugby league players.

In my experience, you'll probably find a few around different clubs who get paid on Sunday for their league club but play Saturday with their mates for fun. It doesn't breach any of the Amateur terms because the Subbies club isn't paying them.
 

Mangoman

Allen Oxlade (6)
In my experience, you'll probably find a few around different clubs who get paid on Sunday for their league club but play Saturday with their mates for fun. It doesn't breach any of the Amateur terms because the Subbies club isn't paying them.
Without a doubt this is the case at many, I would say a majority, of clubs. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s more having a person that SHOULD be at the professional level playing against guys who are there on the weekend for a casual run around.

If the person in question was late 30s and retired from professional sport or late teens/early 20s and a former rep then fair game. But by all rights this guy should be in the NRL and is only playing park footy because of an ongoing investigation and court case.

Again, if he played Kentwell or Barraclough it probably wouldn’t get things too fired up because the playing level is such that at least the guys he’s playing with and against train 2 nights a week and are generally pretty damn good players in their own right.

Speaking as someone who has played in the Jeffrey competition before, it’s a shit mix of guys who probably wouldn’t be out of place in a Kentwell/Burke or Barraclough/Stockdale environment (I.e. 80 min rugby fit, well drilled, footy smart) and some guys who honestly would struggle for a starting spot in any given 4ths or 5ths side.

It just doesn’t sit right.
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
To clear it up, he’s not contracted and hasn’t been since last year to the best of my recollection. So as far as I can see it’s not as if the club has done something egregiously wrong, perhaps just morally wrong.
Don’t understand why he shouldn’t play. We don’t do background checks on every player in Subbies.
What does he do? Get on the piss and get into fights.
If it wasn’t in the papers, we wouldn’t know about it. I can tell you there are guys playing Subbies who have been in trouble with the law and we don’t kick up a stink about them
 

Waterloo_Ned

Herbert Moran (7)
Without a doubt this is the case at many, I would say a majority, of clubs. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s more having a person that SHOULD be at the professional level playing against guys who are there on the weekend for a casual run around.

If the person in question was late 30s and retired from professional sport or late teens/early 20s and a former rep then fair game. But by all rights this guy should be in the NRL and is only playing park footy because of an ongoing investigation and court case.

Again, if he played Kentwell or Barraclough it probably wouldn’t get things too fired up because the playing level is such that at least the guys he’s playing with and against train 2 nights a week and are generally pretty damn good players in their own right.

Speaking as someone who has played in the Jeffrey competition before, it’s a shit mix of guys who probably wouldn’t be out of place in a Kentwell/Burke or Barraclough/Stockdale environment (I.e. 80 min rugby fit, well drilled, footy smart) and some guys who honestly would struggle for a starting spot in any given 4ths or 5ths side.

It just doesn’t sit right.

Which club were you with and are you with now Mangoman?
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
TBH I think you're far more likely to be seriously injured by some amateur gumby with a bad attitude than a recent/ex pro who knows how to go up and down the gears in what is a glorified training run.

Also, outside the pro environment they tend to lose peak fitness and strength fairly quickly, so a lot are found to be mere mortals in a team sport.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
You're on the Subbies committee Pfitzy, what would be their take on this? No problem being corrected if Subbies have raised this and dealt with it...

Technically speaking this matter would be handled in the first case by the Integrity Committee. The Board might require the Integrity Committee to meet to discuss a particular issue if required. There are then rules around whether their recommendations go to the Board etc.

Have a look at this PDF - start on Page 64 for Integrity Committee ;)

 

Mangoman

Allen Oxlade (6)
The main issue I see is that it’s a guy that, by all accounts, should be in the NRL.

70+ NRL caps. Not NSW Cup, not Shute Shield, not Jersey Flegg. The NRL. The top level of domestic rugby, league or union, in Australia (don’t argue this one guys ). The ONLY reason he is not there is because of off field issues. He wasn’t dropped for performance reasons.

He played this past weekend against an Kings Old Boys outfit that train once a week. Maybe an extra once or twice a week in the gym depending on personal preference/commitment.

No one else here seeing the issue with that?
 

Uzi1989

Stan Wickham (3)
Sheesh - talk about missing the point entirely here...

How can you have an established NRL player, in the prime of life, with the skills, athletic ability, power and strength that he has - playing at that level of rugby?!

What if Burra now make a late charge into the fast approaching semi's, and win games due to this guy - don't you think the beaten clubs have a right to say "hang on, this just ain't right here"

Also what if he tackles someone and physically hurts them due to said skill?

Having said all of this, if he has been cleared by Subbies to play, then so be it - but I still don't think its right for him to play such a level where its about playing the game we all like and care for, and not professional
No burraneer don’t need him to do that because they are well on there way to the finals starting in a few weeks but its a great way for him to keep fit
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
No one else here seeing the issue with that?

Potential issues with anything like this.

For example, I personally would not like to be tackled by, or try to tackle, some of the gigantic fast blokes half my age in our Division. Yet I get out there and play by my choice and do my very average best anyway.

What's a good stand-down period in your opinion? Should we make Shute Shield 1st Grade wait 1 year, and any level of full professional (Super Rugby, NRL, etc) wait 2 years? Even if they've been play ing second-tier pro rugby in somewhere like Romania or Russia?

Don't think we have the resources to check everyone. I know of at least one ex-pro rugby player getting around for a First Division side, and nobody has said anything. EDIT: he hasn't played pro for a couple of years, I should add.
 
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The Wombat

Herbert Moran (7)
Potential issues with anything like this.

For example, I personally would not like to be tackled by, or try to tackle, some of the gigantic fast blokes half my age in our Division. Yet I get out there and play by my choice and do my very average best anyway.

What's a good stand-down period in your opinion? Should we make Shute Shield 1st Grade wait 1 year, and any level of full professional (Super Rugby, NRL, etc) wait 2 years? Even if they've been play ing second-tier pro rugby in somewhere like Romania or Russia?

Don't think we have the resources to check everyone. I know of at least one ex-pro rugby player getting around for a First Division side, and nobody has said anything. EDIT: he hasn't played pro for a couple of years, I should add.
David Horwitz has been running around for Maccabi in Halligans
 

thetraitor

Chris McKivat (8)
Don't think we have the resources to check everyone. I know of at least one ex-pro rugby player getting around for a First Division side, and nobody has said anything. EDIT: he hasn't played pro for a couple of years, I should add.
I don't think it's a bad thing, if they're not being paid for it.

Forest has Sam Lane at 10 who was a Super Rugby player many years ago, but it seems that he's genuinely having a good time playing with his mates. He's a good player, but it's not like it's unfair to other clubs who also have really good 10s, and it's not like Forest are hammering their competition. The core of the first grade squad is a former Colts side who won several championships and have been playing together since Juniors.
 

WoodyWoodsman

Sydney Middleton (9)
We could do this for every team and list players with professional/semi-professional contracts. Does it matter? Is Burraneer paying Curtis Scott to play outside centre and semis in the Jeffrey Cup?
Yep, Forest have Sam Lane and Daniel Alley (ex-Marlins 1st Grade) playing.
St Pats had Adrian Musico playing for them, fresh off a year in the Shute Shield and I think ex-Catchpole Medallist.
Blue Mountains have Gavin Duncan running around at fullback.
Hunters Hill have Harrison Orr (ex-Western Force) playing 6.
Waverley pinched Rory Garrett from the Two Blues first grade last year and he is now playing 2s.

UNSW have ex-Rabbitohs contracted player and reigning Barraclough Medallist, Devon Makaore-Boyce, running around in third grade.
Hawkesbury Valley have a number of Two Blues higher graders, including last year's Shute Shield captain, Riley Jacobsen.
Hills are so stacked in the centres that they can afford for Josh Fergusson to play 3rd grade. Here's a bloke that should have been playing professionally.

What's the point of worrying about Curtis Scott again?
 

WoodyWoodsman

Sydney Middleton (9)
Without a doubt this is the case at many, I would say a majority, of clubs. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s more having a person that SHOULD be at the professional level playing against guys who are there on the weekend for a casual run around.

If the person in question was late 30s and retired from professional sport or late teens/early 20s and a former rep then fair game. But by all rights this guy should be in the NRL and is only playing park footy because of an ongoing investigation and court case.

Again, if he played Kentwell or Barraclough it probably wouldn’t get things too fired up because the playing level is such that at least the guys he’s playing with and against train 2 nights a week and are generally pretty damn good players in their own right.

Speaking as someone who has played in the Jeffrey competition before, it’s a shit mix of guys who probably wouldn’t be out of place in a Kentwell/Burke or Barraclough/Stockdale environment (I.e. 80 min rugby fit, well drilled, footy smart) and some guys who honestly would struggle for a starting spot in any given 4ths or 5ths side.

It just doesn’t sit right.
Please see my comment above regarding Devon Makaore-Boyce.
 
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