Sydney Subbies 2022

[Heavyd]

Div 2 has turned into a complete farce.

In 3rd grade thi weekend there was one game played. Newport are on top of the comp and havent played for 5 weeks. Their 4th grade side has long since vanished given there was no football and you cant keep players motivated to play 3 or 4 games in a season. Will be interesting come finals if these clubs that started the season with players will have them at the end given the lack of footy on offer.

2nd grade had two forfeits.

Hello subbies admin????

2023
Div 1 - 8 clubs
Div 2 - 8 clubs
work the rest out with whats left.

 

[Pfitzy]

Hello subbies admin????

I think they're still waiting on your Board application to arrive so you can fix all this????

 

[Eastcoast]

St Pats keep winning fans in Division 1.

They’ll take more away from yesterday than Colleagues.

Are they winning fans in Div 1 as teams can bank an easy 5 points against them? We only needed the draw last time so happy with the 2.

Went 10/10 this week in Div 1 and 2.

Drummoyne appear to be improving and much better than what this forum has suggested previously.

Anyone from Petersham advise whether they have lost players? seem to be a shell of their earlier season selves.

Surely you keep the best standard comp- Kentwell at 10 teams if possible? Would Newport be the only one who can jump up and play Div 1 from the Div 2 clubs? UNSW cant stack lower grabs up in Div 1 and expect to still win higher grades. Hills arent as good as they were 3 years ago, Lindfield dont have the strength in the higher grades. Maybe Valley can continue to build?

 

[Heavyd]

I think they're still waiting on your Board application to arrive so you can fix all this????

My understanding is Newport argued against a 2nd/3rd Div amalgation and their President resigned when they were ignored. But hey lets destroy 3 or 4 clubs in 2022 and roll the dice with whats left next year.

 

[Heavyd]

Are they winning fans in Div 1 as teams can bank an easy 5 points against them? We only needed the draw last time so happy with the 2.

Went 10/10 this week in Div 1 and 2.

Drummoyne appear to be improving and much better than what this forum has suggested previously.

Anyone from Petersham advise whether they have lost players? seem to be a shell of their earlier season selves.

Surely you keep the best standard comp- Kentwell at 10 teams if possible? Would Newport be the only one who can jump up and play Div 1 from the Div 2 clubs? UNSW cant stack lower grabs up in Div 1 and expect to still win higher grades. Hills arent as good as they were 3 years ago, Lindfield dont have the strength in the higher grades. Maybe Valley can continue to build?

Not enough firepower in DIV 2 and Div 3 to keep DIV 1 at 10 teams. Knox and Drumoyne to Div 2 to join Breakers, Lindfield, Hills, UNSW, Hawkesbury Valley and Epping.

 

[Northmead_Ned]

These are the divisions I will be suggesting to the Subbies board. You will notice I have developed the idea of an integrated Div 1/Div 2 lowest grade competition where all the Div 1 5th Grade sides are in a competition with the Div 2 4th Grade sides. I have also developed the concept of a flagship club, who represent the division and others aspire to be like:

Div 1 (4 Grades + Colts + Integrated Div 1/2 Lowest Grade)
1 Colleagues (Flagship club)
2 Waverley
3 Hunters Hill
4 Mosman
5 St Pats
6 Forest
7 Blue Mountains
8 Drummoyne

Div 2 (3 Grades + Colts + Integrated Div 1/2 Lowest Grade)
1 Newport (Flagship club)
2 Petersham
3 Knox
4 Valley
5 UNSW
6 Lindfield
7 Hills
8 Harlequins

Div 3 (3 Grades)
1 Old Ignatians (Flagship club)
2 Old Barker
3 Beecroft
4 Briars
5 Epping
6 Redfield
7 Manly
8 Blacktown (benefit of the doubt that when they are competitive, numbers will improve)

Div 4 (2 Grades)
1 Renegades (Flagship club)
2 Sydney Harbour
3 Merrylands
4 Mac Uni
5 Chatswood
6 Northern Saints
7 Hawkesbury Ag College
8 Convicts

Div 5 (1 Grade - Stronger Division)
1 Hawkesbury Ag College (Flagship club)
2 Canterbury
3 Western Raptors
4 Menai
5 North Cronulla
6 Burraneer

Div 6 (1 Grade - Weaker Division)
1 Brothers (Flagship club)
2 KOBS
3 Oatley
4 Balmain
5 Dukes
6 Convicts

 

[Doritos Day]

What price was the 10 leg D1/2 multi paying

 

[Eastcoast]

What price was the 10 leg D1/2 multi paying

All favs $9 - Beecroft was the longest odds at 1.60. Rest of Div 2 were at Winx odds.

Div 1 had all the underdogs cover the line though. That would have been a nice payout

Gamble Responsibly.

 

[Mangoman]

These are the divisions I will be suggesting to the Subbies board. You will notice I have developed the idea of an integrated Div 1/Div 2 lowest grade competition where all the Div 1 5th Grade sides are in a competition with the Div 2 4th Grade sides. I have also developed the concept of a flagship club, who represent the division and others aspire to be like:

Div 1 (4 Grades + Colts + Integrated Div 1/2 Lowest Grade)
1 Colleagues (Flagship club)
2 Waverley
3 Hunters Hill
4 Mosman
5 St Pats
6 Forest
7 Blue Mountains
8 Drummoyne

Div 2 (3 Grades + Colts + Integrated Div 1/2 Lowest Grade)
1 Newport (Flagship club)
2 Petersham
3 Knox
4 Valley
5 UNSW
6 Lindfield
7 Hills
8 Harlequins

Div 3 (3 Grades)
1 Old Ignatians (Flagship club)
2 Old Barker
3 Beecroft
4 Briars
5 Epping
6 Redfield
7 Manly
8 Blacktown (benefit of the doubt that when they are competitive, numbers will improve)

Div 4 (2 Grades)
1 Renegades (Flagship club)
2 Sydney Harbour
3 Merrylands
4 Mac Uni
5 Chatswood
6 Northern Saints
7 Hawkesbury Ag College
8 Convicts

Div 5 (1 Grade - Stronger Division)
1 Hawkesbury Ag College (Flagship club)
2 Canterbury
3 Western Raptors
4 Menai
5 North Cronulla
6 Burraneer

Div 6 (1 Grade - Weaker Division)
1 Brothers (Flagship club)
2 KOBS
3 Oatley
4 Balmain
5 Dukes
6 Convicts

Div 1 sorted.

Div 2/3 Epping up, Quins down.

Div 4 to down to 7 teams. Convicts down.

Div 5 has Hawkes. Ag listed again so take them out and move Brothers up.

Div 6 to be incorporated with the Div 1/2 lowest grades?

 

[Lurker]

Flagship Club?

 

[Denistone_Dennis]

These are the divisions I will be suggesting to the Subbies board. You will notice I have developed the idea of an integrated Div 1/Div 2 lowest grade competition where all the Div 1 5th Grade sides are in a competition with the Div 2 4th Grade sides. I have also developed the concept of a flagship club, who represent the division and others aspire to be like:

Div 1 (4 Grades + Colts + Integrated Div 1/2 Lowest Grade)
1 Colleagues (Flagship club)
2 Waverley
3 Hunters Hill
4 Mosman
5 St Pats
6 Forest
7 Blue Mountains
8 Drummoyne

Div 2 (3 Grades + Colts + Integrated Div 1/2 Lowest Grade)
1 Newport (Flagship club)
2 Petersham
3 Knox
4 Valley
5 UNSW
6 Lindfield
7 Hills
8 Harlequins

Div 3 (3 Grades)
1 Old Ignatians (Flagship club)
2 Old Barker
3 Beecroft
4 Briars
5 Epping
6 Redfield
7 Manly
8 Blacktown (benefit of the doubt that when they are competitive, numbers will improve)

Div 4 (2 Grades)
1 Renegades (Flagship club)
2 Sydney Harbour
3 Merrylands
4 Mac Uni
5 Chatswood
6 Northern Saints
7 Hawkesbury Ag College
8 Convicts

Div 5 (1 Grade - Stronger Division)
1 Hawkesbury Ag College (Flagship club)
2 Canterbury
3 Western Raptors
4 Menai
5 North Cronulla
6 Burraneer

Div 6 (1 Grade - Weaker Division)
1 Brothers (Flagship club)
2 KOBS
3 Oatley
4 Balmain
5 Dukes
6 Convicts

Oh flagship clubs, how do you fly so high without a special breathing apparatus!

 

[Pfitzy]

My understanding is Newport argued against a 2nd/3rd Div amalgation and their President resigned when they were ignored. But hey lets destroy 3 or 4 clubs in 2022 and roll the dice with whats left next year.

Several clubs argued for/against things, but ultimately the structure had to be something workable that had at least 8 clubs in each Division.

Getting a perfectly equitable system with the exact number of teams you need every week is difficult at the best of times. It requires cooperation of everyone involved, from the Board through Clubs right down to coaches and players.

Having a strong club not get every grade a game every week isn't something that the Board can control 100%, as it relies on the opposition being there to support that concept.

 

[Pfitzy]

I have also developed the concept of a flagship club, who represent the division and others aspire to be like:

Ha! Not sure everyone would agree with you on those Renegades guys being "flagship"

 

[Lurker]

Looking to drop a Tuesday morning hand grenade on the table here…..REFEREEING STANDARDS.

i am a ref in a props body - so I get how hard it is for the man in the middle - but I genuinely think the refeering standards have hit rock bottom - especially in the top grades….

i appreciate that there are a lack of ref numbers - and the blokes that are out there should be commended for turning up….

BUT - surely there has to be some admission and feedback loop whereby some of the woeful - and I mean WOEFUL - refereeing is addressed.

To me it seems that they believe they are beyond reproach and there seems to be no feedback loop.

 

[Heavyd]

Looking to drop a Tuesday morning hand grenade on the table here…..REFEREEING STANDARDS.

i am a ref in a props body - so I get how hard it is for the man in the middle - but I genuinely think the refeering standards have hit rock bottom - especially in the top grades….

i appreciate that there are a lack of ref numbers - and the blokes that are out there should be commended for turning up….

BUT - surely there has to be some admission and feedback loop whereby some of the woeful - and I mean WOEFUL - refereeing is addressed.

To me it seems that they believe they are beyond reproach and there seems to be no feedback loop.

Interesting. From the limited games I have seen the refereeing hasnt been as bad as you suggest but I acknowledge of a handful of games Ive seen. Was great to see a female ref in Colts on the weekend and she did a terrrific job.

 

[Pfitzy]

To me it seems that they believe they are beyond reproach and there seems to be no feedback loop.

Really? Any club can submit feedback via this form - http://form.jotform.com/82038769379978

I recommend:
* Waiting 24-48 hours post-match to take the emotion out of it
* Submitting GOOD feedback as well as bad

Ultimately it is a numbers game. It would be nice if there were more refs to help build the depth, but like players, you're going to get guys leaving the system because they've simply had enough.

 

[Eastcoast]

Looking to drop a Tuesday morning hand grenade on the table here…..REFEREEING STANDARDS.

i am a ref in a props body - so I get how hard it is for the man in the middle - but I genuinely think the refeering standards have hit rock bottom - especially in the top grades….

i appreciate that there are a lack of ref numbers - and the blokes that are out there should be commended for turning up….

BUT - surely there has to be some admission and feedback loop whereby some of the woeful - and I mean WOEFUL - refereeing is addressed.

To me it seems that they believe they are beyond reproach and there seems to be no feedback loop.

Sometimes you do get some decisions you do not agree with, although the referees are out there doing their best. As a player and spectator all you want is consistency - And if the calls are not consistent then thats where people become upset. Happy if the call is wrong, but as long as the ref does it both ways.

Is this in relation to the Knox Petersham game? I watched the end on Cluch and saw that Knox had 2 yellows and 2 reds in the last 5 minutes of the game. I was unsure why a Penalty try was given as well as a Yellow card and then the slew of penalties against Knox which put Petersham in a position to win that game. From one camera angle, I couldnt see everything, although the calls did seem to favour the away team.

The reds appeared to be after the whistle. Frustrations obviously come out when you lose a game in that fashion but these boys may have crossed a line. Can anyone update me post the judicary hearings tomorrow night.

Knox will win alot of games in Div 2 though

 

[Pfitzy]

Some finals action this weekend in Div 5 - splitting into their respective cups with original table placements listed:

Wakehurst Rugby Park - Meldrum?
13:30 Kings OB (7) v Oatley (8) - Oatley got up in their round robin fixture. Not much else to suggest anything but an even contest.
15:15 Wakehurst (5) v Brothers (6) - backing Wakehurst at home. No other reason.

Woollahra #1 Plastic - Jeffrey?
13:30 Sea Lice (3) v Burraneer (4) - that's a rivalry worth writing about. No love lost between the two but the late season additions for the Hammerheads could be the difference.
15:15 Menai (1) v Irish (2) - Menai haven't kicked a ball in 2 weeks. Won't affect their game plan. Irish had a big win over Wakehurst to finish the year and know how to play finals footy. Contrast of styles. Wish I could watch it live

 

[Pfitzy]

Both games on Cluch would be ideal watching...

Sea Lice in a close one, and Menai by 7 for mine...

All Subbies finals should be covered by nswrugby.tv so the list should update with those fixtures when available.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Looking to drop a Tuesday morning hand grenade on the table here…..REFEREEING STANDARDS.

i am a ref in a props body - so I get how hard it is for the man in the middle - but I genuinely think the refeering standards have hit rock bottom - especially in the top grades….

i appreciate that there are a lack of ref numbers - and the blokes that are out there should be commended for turning up….

BUT - surely there has to be some admission and feedback loop whereby some of the woeful - and I mean WOEFUL - refereeing is addressed.

To me it seems that they believe they are beyond reproach and there seems to be no feedback loop.

A few comments to balance out this feedback:
* Rugby referees are pretty much volunteers. The game is very fortunate to have what it does.
* The referee group are also looking to recover post COVID like many of the clubs are. Many people found other things to do on a Saturday.
* COVID and Flu have really impacted on the numbers available this season. This has really effected on the appointment process as there are many late changes on Fridays and sometimes Saturdays.
* Another impact of COVID has been that the quality of rugby is down which in many cases can be harder to referee.
* Abuse of referees has become an even bigger problem. Perhaps it is an outcome of poor performances but it creates a perpetuating cycle as more referees are lost. Behaviour at grounds has become an issue too (just check out the GPS and CAS forums re poor crowd behaviour at schoolboy matches).
* Most referees dedicate a lot of time to rugby - fitness training, education nights, extra games, juniors matches, midweek catchup games, sevens, womens tournaments or just to be an Assistant Referee for the next game. Sometimes they have poor games. Some learn a lot from these matches and get much better. Others repeat the same mistakes. I am sure we have all seen this in other parts of our lives.
* Sydney has a strong group of referee coaches who watch 2, 3 and sometimes 4 matches in a day to help maintain and improve the standards and this work while rewarding is also neverending. Many coaches watch videos as well. Other associations envy these resources.
* 2023 will be better (fingers crossed) as development of some of the newer referees has been slowed by 2 half seasons in 2020 and 2021.