The Cordingley Spite Thread

[naza]

Think we're avoiding the topic at hand-

*Who was the genius that decided to call a scrum rather than tap near halfway when we had 6 mins to go and needed 2 tries?

What are you talking about ? No scrum in minute 74. Maybe you're referring to 71:30 where the ABs again interfere with the ball when we have a free kick ?

Watched bits and pieces of the game again. Cordingly didn't go that bad - amazing to see just how many rucks he had to join. And it confirmed to me how badly Giteau played.

 

[Ash]

But it was Weepus try that really pissed me off. Sharpe was never in a position to take advantage of the knock on and surely play should have gone back even though he made 5 metres before losing the ball. Then how Weepu was not free kicked for being on the ground is truely beyond me.

Yeah. That passage of play had us screaming at Kaplan on the night of the game (I had just actually posted something similar on TSF before I read your post!). It's also what really got my goat when a heap of Kiwis on TSF were bleating about how Kaplan made a heap of decisions against them after Lee Grant posted something.

That, and the flopping on rucks. Watching McCaw in that game was unbelievable, he managed to join rucks legally but somehow seal off Australian ball without getting penalised a few times. I don't know how he does it, but any team would kill to have someone like him in their team.

 

[Scotty]

McCaw never, ever, ever rolls away. Ever.

The fact he is only pinged for it about 1 in 10 times is astounding.

Add to this So'oialo getting away with playing the ball on the ground a few times and Kaino entering the side of the ruck a few times and it adds up to the ABs getting away with murder at the ruck.

I don't normally react this strongly to a refereeing performance (in fact I think the last time I did was when we beat the ABs last year - where they kept getting away with cleaning out players well ahead of the ball), but after watching this for a 3rd time I see some very, very average reffing of the game.

 

[Scarfman]

Humans arent rational. Some try to be, but they arent. I have reffed the odd game and when I knew I had made a bad decision (I sometimes knew but by then it was too late), I am sure I subconsciously gave the benefit of the doubt to the other side the next time. Its human nature. Referees will try to fight that instinct but in doing so, they might go the other way too far. Its all subjective. It must really mess with their heads.

I reckon Kaplan knew he'd incorrectly penalised McCaw once (when he was the only Kiwi there and correctly decided that the ball was out); so he made up for it after that.

I think, though, that there might be something in the idea that Kaplan doesn't like Australian teams. But we need to see his win/loss stats for the Reds, and especially, the Brumbies. Anyone want this project?

 

[Rugby Rat]

Lots of discussion on the poor performance of a few players.

The AB's just (as they have done for the last 6 years) stood up in the game that mattered the most.

 

[disco]

If you go to rugby.com.au (the unofficial australian rugby site) & watch the highlights then you'll see Kaplan standing right at the ruck as AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is clearly on his feet over the ball & RoSo won't release in the ruck before Weepu goes over for a try.

It was poor from Kaplan RoSo was isolated & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) wrestled for possesion for at least 4 seconds before any other All Black arrived.

 

[Gagger]

http://video.gothetahs.com/last_ruck.gif
You need to view the gif above but I couldn't make it work in this post. Feel free if you know how

Right, Australia didn't lose this match and the Tri-Nations because of this - the final ruck. We lost it because we went to sleep for 15 minutes and let in three soft tries.

And this ruck isn't even remarkable because of the the number of infringements the All Blacks managed to cram into it. But let's count them:

1. Stephen Donald (21), the tackler, never releases or rolls away from George Smith the ball carrier. Watch him bring his legs up on the wrong side, off his feet to seal off the ball
2. Richie McCaw (7) comes into the ruck from the side - an offside position
3. Keven Mealamu (16) goes off his feet
4. Ali Williams (5) goes off his feet
5. Mils Miliaina (15) goes off his feet on the wrong side of the ruck
6. Sitiveni Sivivatu (11) goes off his feet on the wrong side of the ruck
7. Mils Muliaina (15) takes out Sam Cordingly the half back, who doesn't even have his hands on the ball
8. Stephen Donald (21), still on the ground, on the wrong side of the ruck and having never rolled away from the tackle, uses his hands to throw the ball out of the ruck to Piri Weepu

No, what's amazing about this ruck is where the referee, Jonathan Kaplan, stands while all of this happens: right in f?cken front of it. And yet sees nothing wrong with it.

Someone give me an explanation for that.

 

[Scotty]

I thought Mils infringement was bad enough, but Stephen Donald clearly throwing the ball out the back off the ground is just astounding.

The only explanation I can give is that Kaplan is clearly inept and blind. I hate to think what the final explanation could be....

 

[cyclopath]

Certainly interesting to watch that footage - hard to argue against the infringements on offer!
I think the biggest problem is that every game has any number of dud decisions. If you win, you generally gloss over them more than if you lose. Human nature dictates we tend to see what we feel is an injustice to our side more.
What bugs me is that a common debating technique on many forums (? fora) and threads seems to be to ignore the point at hand, and bring up another incident as some sort of comparison that negates the first point. "You guys are just bleating, what about when Kaplan penalised Richie unfairly?" as a generalisation. Adds nothing to the process.
I have to admit though, viewed in isolation, that breakdown was a shocker in terms of officiating.
What pissed me off the most was Kaplan giving an early warning to us about repeat infringements (fairly too, I thought) and threatening cards. Not only did he then ignore this threat, but made no similar warning that I saw against repeat infringements he called on McCaw, rightly or wrongly. Why bother if you aint gonna see it through?
From what is being said about the early officiating up north with the ELVs, that much off the feet stuff will get hammered, come the EOYTs. And not just free kicks!

 

[disco]

Good post gagger, I didn't realise how bad that last ruck was. Donald alone was just one constant infringement.

 

[Pfitzy]

I agree cyclo - nothing worse than a ref who threatens and never acts. It just tells the players infringing that they can walk all over him, and it happens at all levels.

 

[Cutter]

I dont think dwelling on the ref is helping things gents. Lets move on and hopefully the Wobs will take the ref out of the equation in Honkers.

 

[Gagger]

And we can help the Wallaby performance through the internet...how exactly?

 

[cyclopath]

To quote The Mex, "Psychic energy".

 

[Gagger]

Yeah, I'm doing that by 'dwelling'.

 

[Scarfman]

You raise an interesting philosophical point, G-man.

If we believe, for example, that - "Players shouldn't worry about the ref, just play the game" - is there a similar requirement on ourselves? Should we expect the same of ourselves that we expect of the players.

It's the same with - "playing one game at a time". We know this is good advice, so should we follow it ourselves, or can we work out the permutations of the final three rounds on a spreadsheet?

You've got me thinking.

 

[naza]

You've got me thinking.

Its never too late to start.

 

[formeropenside]

You raise an interesting philosophical point, G-man.

If we believe, for example, that - "Players shouldn't worry about the ref, just play the game" - is there a similar requirement on ourselves? Should we expect the same of ourselves that we expect of the players.

It's the same with - "playing one game at a time". We know this is good advice, so should we follow it ourselves, or can we work out the permutations of the final three rounds on a spreadsheet?

You've got me thinking.

Pay me $10K per test to merely pontificate, and I will consider the issue.

The Wallabies really need to improve their breakdown work: if someone is on the wrong side (ie esp McCaw) we need to start doing a Pinetree Meads on the nearest limb. They can't cheat if they are off the field injured.

 

[Scarfman]

Pay me $10K per test to merely pontificate, and I will consider the issue.

I'd take $20. But then, I'm an academic not a lawyer, so that would be a pay increase.

 

[Scarfman]

Can we keep this thread going all summer?