The Israel Folau saga

[Derpus]

Probably because all the homosexuals would have been in jail, alongside the aboriginals who attempted to vote

Exactly, my point being that what is deemed acceptable is temporally and culturally relative.

 

[barbarian]

OK so let's get this back on track.

RA have signalled their intent to terminate his contract, and now it seems Israel wants to fight this termination.

While many of us have applauded RA's strong stance, they haven't left themselves much room to move on this.

Is there any way Israel can save his career? I'm not too familiar with the RA appeal process, but is there a chance this all turns around if he is contrite and pledges to delete his accounts etc?
.

 

[Braveheart81]

OK so let's get this back on track.

RA have signalled their intent to terminate his contract, and now it seems Israel wants to fight this termination.

While many of us have applauded RA's strong stance, they haven't left themselves much room to move on this.

Is there any way Israel can save his career? I'm not too familiar with the RA appeal process, but is there a chance this all turns around if he is contrite and pledges to delete his accounts etc?
.

This is pretty similar to Kurtley Beale.

Rugby Australia went into that wanting to terminate his contract and the code of conduct process found that they did not have grounds and he stayed.

 

[Derpus]

From another forum:

oh, he's Destiny Church... explains a lot. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

For those non-Kiwis here who might never have heard of this crowd, let me tell you a few things about Destiny Church that you probably won't find in their brochures....

1. Members must sign an oath of loyalty and obedience to their leader, Brian Tamaki.

2. There is a protocol for interacting with Tamaki - you must always be respectful, you must stop talking when he speaks, you must never disagree with him in front of others and you must stand when he and his wife enter a room and you can only sit when they sit.

3. Tamaki once thought Destiny Church would rule New Zealand

4. Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for the Christchurch Earthquakes of 2010 and 2011

5. Destiny Church is patriarchal, women are considered weak.

6. Destiny Church raises members to be ready for war. Tamaki has repeatedly stated that it wants power. His blackshirts marched on Parliament in 2004 against civil unions. It claimed the government was "evil" with a "radical homosexual agenda".

Tamaki is a power-hungry, manipulative scumbag.
Destiny Church is a Cult, not a church, and its a fraud.
Their "blackshirts" are morons.

I think if turned out that he was a member of a cult, that could constitute mitigating circumstances.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I haven't read this whole thread, but trying to find the real motivation for his actions.

Peter Fitzsimmons seems to think he might be headed to Europe for a deal to eclipse all others.

Would have thought breaking a contract because you were offered more money doesn't align that well with Christian values.

 

[spikhaza]

Few things

RA's previous comments backed them into a corner They could never do anything that wasn't strong, having said that I still think a 50grand fine would have been a better move

At the end of the day its Folau's fault even though we might have some disagreements about the right response

It's not the fans fault, nor the organisation, nor the sponsors, its the fault of a player who was warned but didn't listen

I doubt there's a way back given Peter Beattie seems to have excommunicated him from the NRL

He'll probably go to France or Japan or just start a mission to hunt down the Rugby AU coven

I'm not a lawyer but an unfair dismissal case could potentially be successful. You can have whatever clause in the contract you like but you can't be dismissed for religious reasons. His lawyers will argue this and it will be very interesting. It will balance the competing interests of the rights of the employee versus the employer to maintain their brand and integrity. I will suggest that Folau will lose because of the gravity of the comments he made, the court will also imo take the view that posting shit on instagram isn't exactly an enormously religious exercise and that his right to religion is a bit tangential to the case

 

[Adam84]

Exactly, my point being that what is deemed acceptable is temporally and culturally relative.

I’d like to think stamping out discrimination against minority groups is the evolution of acceptance rather then just been temporarily and culturally relative.

 

[Wilson]

OK so let's get this back on track.

RA have signalled their intent to terminate his contract, and now it seems Israel wants to fight this termination.

While many of us have applauded RA's strong stance, they haven't left themselves much room to move on this.

Is there any way Israel can save his career? I'm not too familiar with the RA appeal process, but is there a chance this all turns around if he is contrite and pledges to delete his accounts etc?
.

Both the instagram and the twitter post are still up, you'd think any contrition would begin with the voluntary removal of them. I'm guessing it comes down to the terms of his contract but it's clear he understands RA's position from the last incident and I don't see any real out for him. In his own words:

"After we'd all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn't be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-17/israel-folau-is-prepared-to-walk-away-from-rugby/9665850

 

[Wilson]

Also doesn't help his case that he wouldn't talk to them for the first 24 hours.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Funny he waited till he got the Super Rugby try scoring record.

 

[barbarian]

I'm not a lawyer but an unfair dismissal case could potentially be successful.

He'd be mad to go down this road, though.

He's been kicked out of the game, a move that has been received positively by the majority of fans. Even the NRL don't want him.

So he thinks he can fight this and just walk back into the game? Don a gold jersey and head to the World Cup? Score tries and soak up standing ovations?

Nope. He's cooked. Yeah he might win a court case, but he's already lost in court of public opinion.

And by 'court of public opinion' I don't just mean a few woke Twitter commentators. All my mates think it was the right call too. People at the office agree with it. Blokes on the street.

Even if he wins his appeal, the Waratahs and Wallabies could surely just stand him down for the rest of the season on full pay.
.

 

[fatprop]

Probably because all the homosexuals would have been in jail, alongside the aboriginals who attempted to vote

Yep, we should be celebrating how far we have come while appreciating a good part of the population isn't there yet (4.9 million of us voted against gay marriage) to that end shame & scorn will not be successful tools in shaping further change

 

[gel]

This is pretty similar to Kurtley Beale.

Rugby Australia went into that wanting to terminate his contract and the code of conduct process found that they did not have grounds and he stayed.

Yep.

They shot their mouths off prior to following their own processes. They haven't learned a thing. They have left themselves open to a potentially awful situation - again.

They are a less than optimal bunch of people.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Both the instagram and the twitter post are still up, you'd think any contrition would begin with the voluntary removal of them. I'm guessing it comes down to the terms of his contract but it's clear he understands RA's position from the last incident and I don't see any real out for him. In his own words:


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-17/israel-folau-is-prepared-to-walk-away-from-rugby/9665850

That says a lot doesn't it. I think maybe there is some credence to wanting out and this being the trigger to do it. It's not like he wouldn't have known.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

From another forum:



I think if turned out that he was a member of a cult, that could constitute mitigating circumstances.

Crikey that's some pretty out there Branch Davidian style action right there. Wonder if they'll be receiving a visit from the NZ armed forces in the near future?

 

[The Honey Badger]

Hypothetically, if he did go to Europe he would still be Wallaby eligible under Giteau rule. (without a contract)

Be nice if RA left some option for a return if he could make peace with those he offended.

 

[Up the Guts]

This is pretty similar to Kurtley Beale.

Rugby Australia went into that wanting to terminate his contract and the code of conduct process found that they did not have grounds and he stayed.

So, if they don't have the legal grounds to terminate his contract they basically ask him to leave and if he doesn't they can't forcibly remove him? So then the question is, would the Waratahs/Wallabies select him?

 

[Derpus]

He'd be mad to go down this road, though.

He's been kicked out of the game, a move that has been received positively by the majority of fans. Even the NRL don't want him.

So he thinks he can fight this and just walk back into the game? Don a gold jersey and head to the World Cup? Score tries and soak up standing ovations?

Nope. He's cooked. Yeah he might win a court case, but he's already lost in court of public opinion.

And by 'court of public opinion' I don't just mean a few woke Twitter commentators. All my mates think it was the right call too. People at the office agree with it. Blokes on the street.

Even if he wins his appeal, the Waratahs and Wallabies could surely just stand him down for the rest of the season on full pay.
.

He would just get his contract paid out, he wouldnt be reinstated.

 

[fatprop]

He'd be mad to go down this road, though.

He's been kicked out of the game, a move that has been received positively by the majority of fans. Even the NRL don't want him.

So he thinks he can fight this and just walk back into the game? Don a gold jersey and head to the World Cup? Score tries and soak up standing ovations?

Nope. He's cooked. Yeah he might win a court case, but he's already lost in court of public opinion.

And by 'court of public opinion' I don't just mean a few woke Twitter commentators. All my mates think it was the right call too. People at the office agree with it. Blokes on the street.

Even if he wins his appeal, the Waratahs and Wallabies could surely just stand him down for the rest of the season on full pay.
.

He maybe cooked as to being reinstated, but the outcome of whether the termination was valid and legal can also be about extracting more cash as an outcome of a wrongful termination.

I would be amazed if this doesn't turn into SCs at 10 paces

 

[I like to watch]

He maybe cooked as to being reinstated, but the outcome of whether the termination was valid and legal can also be about extracting more cash as an outcome of a wrongful termination.

I would be amazed if this doesn't turn into SCs at 10 paces

Only if he doesn’t want to go to Europe.
If he signs for big bucks over there,what’s he going to sue them for?
If he hasn’t suffered a loss, there’s nothing to compensate.