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The problem with the NRC and how to fix it

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kiap

Steve Williams (59)
8 teams still means 9 rounds, just like 2017, unless they decide to cut the bye round completely in which case it will be a 7 round season, only 1 less then 2017. In 2017 with 9 teams, they were able to play the bye round concurrently to the season, in 2018 wth an even number of teams they won't have that luxury. I can't see them cutting the bye, certainly not with the inclusion of Fiji in the comp now, they need a break from touring at some point.

Where are you getting this idea? There were, unless I'm mistaken,

7 rounds in 2016

9 rounds in 2017

Soup teams don't have a guaranteed post-tour break, even after flying to South Africa and Argentina.

Yes, byes can be desirable for teams like Fiji. Doesn't make them necessary.

Flight distance from Suva to Sydney is 3200 km. Perth to Sydney is 3200 km.

Fiji need to harden up … (i) easy start: Home/Away/Home; (ii) short tour out: Away/Away; and then (iii) Home/Home … is but one option. Sorted.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
The NRC scheduled the first two weeks exactly like that this year. It didn't still didn't allow the NSW teams enough time to gell and become competitive by the time they had to face non NSW teams.

Not quite exactly. There was at least a week's break after the Shute GF this year.

What I was suggesting is no week's break … a zero to twenty hour turnaround. But only for the reason that the NRC not get pushed back.

And the NRC was already finishing two weeks late this year and was sort of ruined by players going on EOYT from both outer wallaby squad and Fiji.

True.

Is the alternative to be moving the NRC a week or two earlier?

Wouldn't bother me, but it might do some others.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm happy for the competitions to overlap, so long as the Shute Shield is content with losing their best players for the finals series to the NRC squads..........

The NRC should take priority, and any player not wishing to make themselves available (RA contracted players should have no choice here) should be scrubbed of the chance for pursuing higher opportunities.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Why don't we just bar anyone from ever playing the game again, if they choose to play a GF for which they have trained I in the previous 10 months,in favour of the first round of a competition that is less professional in many respects.
 
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Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Crowds, fan engagement match day experience, pre season prep, clarity of purpose for a start.

Clarity of purpose? What a crock of shit........

None of that actually backs up that ridiculous assertion that the NRC is 'less professional.'

In fact, do I state the obvious for a start?
 

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David Codey (61)
So professional some teams acknowledge its not feasible to charge spectators an admission fee?

So professional that most under 13's have a more comprehensive preparation for the state champs than NRC teams?( yes there are reasons for it, but it doesn't alter the fact that NRC teams are ludicrously under prepared.)

a SS home game at Manly oval or Rat Park are much superior than a Rays game at the same venue.Its not a criticism of the NRC product, just an acknowledgment that these SS clubs are a long way ahead in delivering a match day product.
It's more professional.
Some of the travelling arrangements for interstate games to save money wouldn't be considered by most amateur teams.
Some players earned less than $12 per hour last year based on training commitments and match fees.
For a start....
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yes, the SS clubs have a longer history and more established fanbase, and a larger profile than the NRC within Sydney, but.........

I don't think that the quality of the sausage sizzle makes it "more professional" than the international, nationally broadcast, corporate sponsored game of full time professional athletes playing a higher tiered level of the game...........

But now I'm curious about these interstate travel arrangements for SS clubs?
 

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David Codey (61)
Turn down the hyperbole, I'm actually a fan of the NRC, but don't accept many of your assertions regarding its current standing.
As a comp, it's still got its training wheels on.

Your initial suggestion that players who don't abandon their club after a 10 or 11 month commitment and be available for the opening round of the NRC, should effectively be banned from further opportunities was so ridiculous I bit.

But now you're telling us that these same players are full time professionals.....
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
The NRC should take priority, and any player not wishing to make themselves available (RA contracted players should have no choice here) should be scrubbed of the chance for pursuing higher opportunities.

You are asking the players to wear the cost of inept administration decisions between ARU/NSWRU/SRU. There are plenty of issues here, but the players are not themselves on that list. Suggest we think again about the importance of grassroots to the game.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Where are you getting this idea? There were, unless I'm mistaken,

7 rounds in 2016

9 rounds in 2017

Soup teams don't have a guaranteed post-tour break, even after flying to South Africa and Argentina.

Yes, byes can be desirable for teams like Fiji. Doesn't make them necessary.

Flight distance from Suva to Sydney is 3200 km. Perth to Sydney is 3200 km.

Fiji need to harden up … (i) easy start: Home/Away/Home; (ii) short tour out: Away/Away; and then (iii) Home/Home … is but one option. Sorted.

I might be wrong about the rounds...

I still disagree about not needing a Bye, this isn’t super rugby they aren’t fully professional players, many of the squad are made up of a majority of amateur players and I don’t think it’s purely a case of just ‘hardening up’. Fatigue from travel and time away from home takes its toll.

I agree it will probably be one of the first things to go if the timeline is crunched, but I don’t think it should be.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Indeed. So, a response?

Keep the NRC start date on the same weekend.

Assuming there are still three NSW teams, one of them (let's say, NSW Country) gets the bye.

The other two NSW teams play each other in a non-TV game on Pittwater Park training field (No. 2). Let 'em scrape together a couple of sides with ring-ins and reserves … no one cares, everyone's happy.

Win-win.

Gosh I hate NSW rugby with its BS politics and self interest.......and I am a Tahs supporter and proud NSW person but not proud of how rugby politics go on at Shute Shield and NSW Rugby level..........how do they think they are supporting the wider interests of Australian Rugby is beyond me....
 

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David Codey (61)
Storm in a teacup.

There are 3 Sydney NRC teams.

There can only be 2 SS clubs in their GF.

How many in a NRC squad these days?
How many from 1 club start in their NRC team?

So in the first round two of the NRC teams might be marginally weaker.

It's not like the NRC season starts with a lot of fanfare that the SS might diminish. It's the best kept secret in the country.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Storm in a teacup.

There are 3 Sydney NRC teams.

There can only be 2 SS clubs in their GF.

How many in a NRC squad these days?
How many from 1 club start in their NRC team?

So in the first round two of the NRC teams might be marginally weaker.

Surely the 2 best teams in the SS warrant greatest selection in the NSW NRC teams though? Is that not reward for the best performing players, thus offering them the avidity to perform at a higher level and earn a contract??

ILTW do you not agree that the far better W/L that the NSW teams experienced in 2016 was in part due to the greater separation between the two tournaments in 2016, and by reducing it in 2017 the NSW teams were worse off?
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
The 2 best teams probably do get greater representation, but the core of each NRC team is about 10 full time pros. The NRC teams are without the grand finalists for a week, that's not season defining.

In any event, in many cases there's not much between the SS players within each squad, for example, I would pick the Rats 13 above the Marlins 13, but there there's not a lot between them, same with plenty of the backrowers, and back 3. Etc etc.

I really don't see it has much impact, if any on their prospects for the year.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
I might be wrong about the rounds.

I still disagree about not needing a Bye, this isn’t super rugby they aren’t fully professional players, many of the squad are made up of a majority of amateur players and I don’t think it’s purely a case of just ‘hardening up’. Fatigue from travel and time away from home takes its toll.

I agree it will probably be one of the first things to go if the timeline is crunched, but I don’t think it should be.

Perth won the comp in 2016 without any byes and my suggestion is that their air miles per game last year will be more than Fiji's for next year.

Either way, we're really on the same side of the argument in terms of backing the NRC. I think it's a comp that still has a future.

The main game, however, is the next level up. I differ from most posters on this board because I believe the current Super Rugby model is doomed. But that's another discussion …
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Storm in a teacup.

There are 3 Sydney NRC teams.

There can only be 2 SS clubs in their GF.

How many in a NRC squad these days?
How many from 1 club start in their NRC team?

So in the first round two of the NRC teams might be marginally weaker.

It's not like the NRC season starts with a lot of fanfare that the SS might diminish. It's the best kept secret in the country.

Many of us would like to see NRC as not the best kept secret and part of that is making sure full commitment of available players for the competition from the start. The NRC has suffered from challenges of next to no marketing budget and range of other issues, but still improved year on year from low base and offered much in terms of pathways. Lot more could be done with it across the board including Shute Shield stop acting like it is the centre of the universe and work better with all and sundry to support wider Oz rugby interests.....
 
T

TOCC

Guest
The 2 best teams probably do get greater representation, but the core of each NRC team is about 10 full time pros. The NRC teams are without the grand finalists for a week, that's not season defining.

In any event, in many cases there's not much between the SS players within each squad, for example, I would pick the Rats 13 above the Marlins 13, but there there's not a lot between them, same with plenty of the backrowers, and back 3. Etc etc.

I really don't see it has much impact, if any on their prospects for the year.

Has the core group really been 10 full time pros? Looking at the squads this year it would appear to be closer to 4 or 5 on average, with Wallaby squad members removed, injuries and overseas contracts all detracting from the number of full-time players in the NRC squads.

You can't look at in isolation of just one week, in a 8 week competition, that 1 week plus the extra 1 or 2 weeks that the other teams have had in pre-season together places the NSW teams at a 3 week advantage. Its clear that this impacts on their ability to compete, the players and coaches have even said as much.

2016 there was a 3 week separation between the SS GF and the NRC, correlation isn't causation but there is an obvious trend in those statistics. Only once in 4 year has a NSW team beaten a non-NSW opponent in Round 1, no prizes in guessing that it was in 2016, where they were afforded a credible pre-season.

Year: Win Ration/Number of NSW Teams/Break between SS and NRC
2014: 37% (4 teams, 1 week break)
2015: 21% (4 teams, 1 week break)
2016: 66% (3 teams, 3 week break)
2017: 42% (3 teams, 1 week break)
 
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