The Wallabies Thread

[Braveheart81]

Is it really unreasonable to expect an Australian rugby player to play 80mins if needed? Whitelock and Retallick are both 80mins players.

Props are one area, due to the power nature of the game which stand to benefit by keeping their match time to the 50min mark.

But certainly for locks and backrowers, the relationship between impact and match time isn't inverse.

No, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect an Australian player to play well for 80 minutes.

Do you disagree with the premise that some players have a greater ability to provide impact over a shorter period of time than others?

Of those two great ABs locks I would say Retallick is a more explosive player and would be able to provide more impact in half an hour than Whitelock.

I think the bench role is pretty different to starting and some players are better suited it at than others.

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[TOCC]

My original point and stance is that players shouldn't be selected if they don't have the fitness required to play at a reasonable standard for 80mins.

Fitness has been a big concern for the Wallabies and Australian rugby for a long time now, against England last year their were players who were walking with hands on their hips at 50mins, to the point of being ineffective, England were a class above in fitnesss. So it bemuses me that it's raised its head again, it's like Oz Rugby doesn't learn from their mistakes.

Sure players can play more explosive over a shorter period, that's not what I'm concerned by.

 

[upthereds#!]

Cheika has said there is nothing wrong with Simmons and Douglas fitness or set piece work. Purely their impact. I'd say Douglas, out of Simmons, Carter and Douglas, has the highest capacity to provide impact, especially in a short window of time where he was well known for going bananas especially in defence at the Tahs, where he had a couple smash brothers.

Of the 3 locks from the June series, Carter was by far the least effective, especially when brought on as a finisher as he rarely gets the gain line and rarely lays a dominant tackle. He had a fantastic Super Rugby season, but he was one of the reasons we are now so happy to have super weapons like Coleman and Arnold actually being able to go toe to toe with other international big boys.

Can't have Simmons and Carter with Coleman as Coleman is already the lineout guy so needs 1 backup, whereas we need a bigboy backup for Arnold. I think Simmons best rugby is better then Carters best rugby but I think Carter is playing his best possible rugby whilst Simmons clearly isn't. Would like to see Rodda and Tui given more development time in train on squads and maybe 1 gets to train on EOYT like perese/thor did.

Locks.
Coleman & Carter
Arnold & Douglas

 

[TOCC]

Douglas doesn't deserve to be in the squad let alone in the matchday 22, send him back to the NRC, get him to play into some form and then consider recalling him. Likewise with Simmons

 

[upthereds#!]

We have no idea how they are going in camp and what Cheika is thinking - playing into form before being selected is clearly not one of cheikas driving criteria regardless of what he says.

Cheika says Super Rugby form doesn't matter after Higs
Picked Carter on his Super Rugby form
Didn't pick quade coz of form
Picked Douglas who was out of form then didn't play
Picked Hardwick - a bench player
Didn't pick Alcock who was in form
Picked Dempsey - hasn't played then bench player then not sure
Picked Robertson who clearly is never in form
Picked Cowan who is in form
Picked nabuli who isn't in form

Ahhhhhh

 

[wamberal]

I'll bet the Darkness are confused, though!!!

 

[Sauron]

Cheika's on another level. Playing five-dimensional chess, and we're all playing checkers.

 

[Braveheart81]

My original point and stance is that players shouldn't be selected if they don't have the fitness required to play at a reasonable standard for 80mins.

Fitness has been a big concern for the Wallabies and Australian rugby for a long time now, against England last year their were players who were walking with hands on their hips at 50mins, to the point of being ineffective, England were a class above in fitnesss. So it bemuses me that it's raised its head again, it's like Oz Rugby doesn't learn from their mistakes.

Sure players can play more explosive over a shorter period, that's not what I'm concerned by.

Who would you pick as your locks for the first Bledisloe?

Who would you start, and what would your intended replacement be and at roughly what time?

 

[TOCC]

See post 5095....

Arnold and Coleman to start with Carter as reserve.. when the reserve comes on will be subjective to match day conditions and situation dependant, but broadly I would suggest Carter to come on for Arnold at 50-60mim.

 

[Brumby Runner]

See post 5095..

Arnold and Coleman to start with Carter as reserve.. when the reserve comes on will be subjective to match day conditions and situation dependant, but broadly I would suggest Carter to come on for Arnold at 50-60mim.

So important, and seemingly continually ignored by coaching staff at the Aus Super sides and at the Wallabies.

 

[Gnostic]

^^^^^ Upthereds and Sauron - Chieka is fast getting to the Deans point of crazy selections. I expect that if Hooper gets injured, Smith will not get selected and McCalman (or similar) will play at 7 as they have the proven abiltity to do so. Also Robertson will be selected time and again finally to be yellow carded and be forced into retirement without ever addressing the key flaws that saw him with the flaws.

We are not despite appearances in uncharted territory here, Deans mapped it very well, unfortunately.

 

[Sully]

Press conference tomoz at 1pm to announce Hoop... ahh I mean the new captain.

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[Froggy]

Gnostic, you always provide the benefit of making everyone else on GAGR look like an optimist!

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^^ Upthereds and Sauron - Chieka is fast getting to the Deans point of crazy selections. I expect that if Hooper gets injured, Smith will not get selected and McCalman (or similar) will play at 7 as they have the proven abiltity to do so. Also Robertson will be selected time and again finally to be yellow carded and be forced into retirement without ever addressing the key flaws that saw him with the flaws.

We are not despite appearances in uncharted territory here, Deans mapped it very well, unfortunately.

Gnostic, I agree with your observation about Cheika's selections, but you've lost me with your follow up comments.

If Hooper gets injured, I really can't see George Smith being an option to replace him, and even less so Ben McCalman. George is in the twilight of his career, and has said he wouldn't want to keep a younger player out; Ben is not a No 7 - he has rarely shone at test level in his preferred No 8 spot. Assuming McMahon won't be selected because he is departing, then Hardwick, who is in the squad, looms as the most likely replacement.

Robertson has admittedly been out of form, but he is a really young man and has years ahead of him. He probably will continue to be selected from time to time but one YC is hardly going to trigger his retirement.

 

[upthereds#!]

Best thing for Robertson will be for Slipper to come back so Robertson can go back to physically developing in stead being physically dominated. He will be a great prop I'm sure, but he's not not so he shouldn't be in the starting 23 if it can be avoided...which atm it maybe can't so meh.

Smith cleeeearrrrrly said he wouldn't turn his back on a gold jersey but would only take it if everyone else fell over - that means Hooper, Mcmahon, Hardwick, even Dempsey and Korcyk probably could play a game at 7 if they had to and then Fainga'a. Sure Smith is better then most these guys still, but that's not the only factor when it comes to George Smith.

Mcmahon will probably get picked for RC but not for EOYT, unless Cheika does it out of spite to deter Japanese clubs picking up A class Aussies. But I think not all of the RC and EOYT are within international test windows so it would be a bit of back and forwarding.

Hopefully see RHP and/or Naisarani as either a spot or a training member if not eligible (like thor) for the EOYT. If Korcyk and Dempsey are getting a chance to be involved on the back of nothing, then those 2 guys deserve a chance to be involved on the back of a ripper season.

When is Pocock due back on deck? 2018 or this year?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Without being across the detail, I think Pocock will return for the 2018 pre-season training later in the year. I don't think he will be available for the RC or EOYT.

 

[fatprop]

nice piece

Western Force prop Pek Cowan made an executive decision six weeks ago that a few things needed to change.
He decided to kick his fitness training up a gear, refuse to accept mediocrity and go out of his way to be more of a "prick" on the field.

The result?
An unexpected call-up to Michael Cheika's Wallabies training squad, three years after Cowan was last involved in the Australian set-up.
"I felt like for a few years I was treading water and I was happy being where I was at," Cowan told Fairfax Media. "Within that six-week block I did my own stuff by myself for the last part of the Super Rugby season. That's obviously paid dividends because [Cheika] has realised it. My performances reflected the work I have done.

"My mindset has also changed. Instead of being a good loser – especially with the Force not having great seasons and not great consistency – it's just trying to win everything and being ruthless and not making friends on the field.
"Especially the Rebels and Tahs boys. They would say I was a bit of a prick on the field and that's because I wanted to win. Mentally, I've just flicked the switch."
While Cowan, 31, is a new face in the Cheika era, he is a familiar figure in Australian rugby.

another guy doing extras and getting the attitude right

 

[gel]

^^^^^

Good going, that man.

Took it upon himself to look at his own game and do something about it.

Kudos.

 

[fatprop]

Robertson has admittedly been out of form, but he is a really young man and has years ahead of him. He probably will continue to be selected from time to time but one YC is hardly going to trigger his retirement.

I would love to understand the "logic" of turning him into a LHP

At THP he is technically very good and did great as a baby in his first season, so great he gets a deserved Wobs call up; and then gets turned into a LHP

I don't really understand the logic

 

[Braveheart81]

That's where the opportunity lied both at Super Rugby and test level.

Robertson hasn't been as good this season as last but we are lacking at LHP and both Sio and Smith struggled in June against Italy.

I would like to see Cowan get another test behind Sio but I tend to think Robertson will stay in the trimmed down squad.

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