The Wallabies Thread

[Tomikin]

He went north for love did he not?
Pity, whatever the reason.

His spoken a little about it.. Was more setting up there future.. His a smart kid you think being looked over for 10 /12 all those times speciallay at the world cup didn't push him north.

I think he also seen the light figuratively and literally with the head knocks.. And decided to make hay while the Sunshines

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[Joe Blow]

To'omua is/was a very solid option to have inside the likes of Beale and Kerevi. Good for him if he has got everything sorted.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Anyone else appalled with Cheika / the ARU for potentially selecting Samu at the expense of someone currently playing for an Aussie Super team? I would be more understanding if they didn't have someone to fill that role, but back row is probably our strongest position.


It just smacks of Cheika's favouritism like last year not selecting Fardy 'because he's going oversease' yet constantly selecting McMahon!

 

[Braveheart81]

His a smart kid you think being looked over for 10 /12 all those times speciallay at the world cup didn't push him north.

He was consistently in the Wallabies 23 through that period including the RWC.

I'm not sure "being looked over all those times" is accurate.

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[Derpus]

Anyone else appalled with Cheika / the ARU for potentially selecting Samu at the expense of someone currently playing for an Aussie Super team? I would be more understanding if they didn't have someone to fill that role, but back row is probably our strongest position.


It just smacks of Cheika's favouritism like last year not selecting Fardy 'because he's going oversease' yet constantly selecting McMahon!

Nope.

All the words that you just did with your fingers are wrong.

 

[TSR]

Anyone else appalled with Cheika / the ARU for potentially selecting Samu at the expense of someone currently playing for an Aussie Super team? I would be more understanding if they didn't have someone to fill that role, but back row is probably our strongest position.


It just smacks of Cheika's favouritism like last year not selecting Fardy 'because he's going oversease' yet constantly selecting McMahon!

I'm not personally. Whilst arguably our two best players are in the back row, there is a clear 3rd spot to fill. There are plenty of promising youngsters on the horizon, but that is all they are at this point. Plenty of 'sure things' have been and gone who were presumed to be Wallabies in waiting but never took that next step, or couldn't cut it when they did.

Cheika's job is to fill the talent pool as much as he can. He/the ARU gets criticized for the drain of talent OS (like Fardy) - surely he deserves credit when he wins one back.

Whether he is backing the right horse or not at the selection table is an entirely different argument. I do have some concerns around Cheika's selections, but I also think a lot of players benefit from the presumption that if they had have been selected they would have done better than the player that was. I thought Fardy deserved a gig last year, but in saying that McMahon was exceptional (and I was a doubter early on).

I hope/expect that Samu will be required to meet the same selection criteria as every other player. In that, I think Cheika does have form - both Houston and Meakes were enticed back with the carrot of challenging for the Wallabies, but neither were given an inside run for the role. So long as he is being honest with his communication with players, then I have no problems with it.

 

[fatprop]

I think the reality is that while aus has a small pro pool and a dire 19 to 21 development structure there is going to be a constant movement of players looking for opportunites to grow and get paid.

We will continue to lose some, win some back and then lose others for the foreseeable future

Aus rugby simply isn't big enough, rich enough or popular enough to provide better development programs at the moment - and "a better club rugby isn't the answer" - if a decent kid has the option playing amatuer/at best semi pro club, move into a professional pro NRL feeder or get a contract overseas to train as a pro I know which options will be prioritised

 

[barbarian]

Don't know what you've got 'til it's gone …

We did know. It wasn't like anybody was happy to see MT leave.

There is a narrative on here that every player who goes to the NH did so because they were criminally overlooked for the Wallabies, and Cheika/Pulver 'did nothing to stop them'.

While this may be true in a handful of cases, in the vast majority there is far more nuance to the situation. To'omua's case strikes me as one of these. Yes he wasn't a regular starting Wallaby, but he was never overlooked. There were a number of other factors that went into his decision, clearly.
.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think you are going to be rather disappointed with the squad BR

FP, for the record, here are my preferred selections. They are not what I think Cheika will pick. So, it will be apparent just how disappointed I'll be when the announcement is made tonight.



Props (6): Sio, Robertson, Kepu, Tupou, Ala'alatoa, Vui (assuming Ala'alatoa will cover LHP, Vui in for development);
Hookers (3): Uelese, BPA, Fainga'a;
Locks (4): Coleman, Rodda, Arnold, Philip;
Backrow (6): Hooper (c), Pocock, Timu, Samu, Cottrell, Tui;
Halfbacks (3): Genia, Powell, Gordon;
Fly half (1): Foley;
Centres (4): Beale, Kuridrani, Kerevi, Hodge;
Outside Backs (6): Folau, Koroibete, DHP, Rona, Banks, Clarke.

I have used BH's breakup of the numbers in each position.

From that squad, for the first test I'd go with :

Sio, BPA, Ala'alatoa
Coleman, Rodda
Samu, Pocock, Timu
Genia
Foley
Kerevi, Hodge
DHP, Rona, Folau

Uelese, Robertson, Tupou, Philip, Hooper, Powell, Beale, Banks.

The inconsistency is picking AAT in the squad as LH cover, but playing him in the TH spot. But that is my preference, nobody else's. Arnold would return to the fold as soon as his suspension expires, in place of Philip. Cottrell would be close to a start if either of Samu or Timu don't step up. First and foremost, I want a pack, including the backrow, to be filled with hard as players willing to get on top of the Irish. No place for Rob Simmons in that scenario, and MH becomes a bench player.

Note that the squad still contains 10 Tahs.

 

[fatprop]

We did know. It wasn't like anybody was happy to see MT leave.

There is a narrative on here that every player who goes to the NH did so because they were criminally overlooked for the Wallabies, and Cheika/Pulver 'did nothing to stop them'.

While this may be true in a handful of cases, in the vast majority there is far more nuance to the situation. To'omua's case strikes me as one of these. Yes he wasn't a regular starting Wallaby, but he was never overlooked. There were a number of other factors that went into his decision, clearly.
.

Yeah even listening to interviews with Fardy, whilst battling for a Wobs role no doubt a factor, the guy wanted to travel and have a go in Europe as well while he could

 

[Up the Guts]

FP, for the record, here are my preferred selections. They are not what I think Cheika will pick. So, it will be apparent just how disappointed I'll be when the announcement is made tonight.

From that squad, for the first test I'd go with :

Sio, BPA, Ala'alatoa
Coleman, Rodda
Samu, Pocock, Timu
Genia
Foley
Kerevi, Hodge
DHP, Rona, Folau

Uelese, Robertson, Tupou, Philip, Hooper, Powell, Beale, Banks.

I think that's a pretty fair-minded squad even though I don't totally agree with the team you've picked. If you don't like Beale in the centres would you consider picking him as a winger as he played in the England match in the 2015 RWC? My main concern is Foley's performances don't seem to be as good without Beale linking up with him. I'd also have Banks starting over Rona if Rona is being picked on the wing and not 13.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I am absolutely sure you're right FP about Fardy wanting to have a go in Europe, but he was the ultimate team man. I am in no doubt at all that had he thought he was a chance at the RWC, he would have continued here to have his go. Europe could wait a year or two. He is still at the top of his game and he wouldn't have missed out. Probably just saying the right things in his interviews. My impressions anyway.

 

[Braveheart81]

I am absolutely sure you're right FP about Fardy wanting to have a go in Europe, but he was the ultimate team man. I am in no doubt at all that had he thought he was a chance at the RWC, he would have continued here to have his go. Europe could wait a year or two.

He would have been a chance at the RWC if he'd stayed. It would have been ludicrous for RA to sign him up to be a big contract for 2017-2019 though. He was 32 and the RWC still three seasons away. He would have been on a lot less money than he could have got in Europe.

Could he really have waited until after the RWC for a crack in Europe? He'll be turning 36 before the 2020-21 season starts. Is he still going to be at the top of his game then?

 

[Tomikin]

We did know. It wasn't like anybody was happy to see MT leave.

There is a narrative on here that every player who goes to the NH did so because they were criminally overlooked for the Wallabies, and Cheika/Pulver 'did nothing to stop them'.

While this may be true in a handful of cases, in the vast majority there is far more nuance to the situation. To'omua's case strikes me as one of these. Yes he wasn't a regular starting Wallaby, but he was never overlooked. There were a number of other factors that went into his decision, clearly.
.

Like every major decision in life..thanks for pointing that out. No one said he was criminally over looked, but he was probably box seat for a starting roll in the world cup when Gits was brought back.

Gits was awesome. Money Injuries and his wife all played into his decision.. But you can't say that being a bit part player wasn't also a factor..He just never nailed his spot for whatever reason.

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[Brumby Runner]

I think that's a pretty fair-minded squad even though I don't totally agree with the team you've picked. If you don't like Beale in the centres would you consider picking him as a winger as he played in the England match in the 2015 RWC? My main concern is Foley's performances don't seem to be as good without Beale linking up with him. I'd also have Banks starting over Rona if Rona is being picked on the wing and not 13.

My disinclination to pick Beale is based on his poor defense. That will be apparent whereever he plays, and given the structures Grey wants, maybe even more crucial on the wing. So, no, I wouldn't have him on the wing. The bench is not a bad spot for him, as he will have less time on the field for his defensive deficiencies to be exploited, and sufficient time to weave one or two pieces of magic that might sway a result in the final quarter.

Foley, I thought, had a particularly good game v the Hurricanes and didn't seem to rely on Beale to get the backline moving or to make his own breaks. He will be adequate on his own, though his kicking game is very limited. Hodge at 13 is a bit out there, but I think he's shown he has good running skills in previous tests and he could really benefit from playing outside Kerevi who is developing his off loading game and looking good at 12. Hodge's boot is also a big positive factor.

I think Rona has the form this year to warrant a look, but at this stage more so on the wing. Koriobete would have that spot if and when he finds form.

I've left Kepu out atm, because I truly believe both AAT and Tupou are in better form. However, if AAT is used as LH bench cover, then Kepu to start and Tupou stays there as bench THP. Whichever of AAT/Kepu start at THP, I would want Tupou coming on in the last 20 - 30 minutes for impact.

 

[Brumby Runner]

He would have been a chance at the RWC if he'd stayed. It would have been ludicrous for RA to sign him up to be a big contract for 2017-2019 though. He was 32 and the RWC still three seasons away. He would have been on a lot less money than he could have got in Europe.

Could he really have waited until after the RWC for a crack in Europe? He'll be turning 36 before the 2020-21 season starts. Is he still going to be at the top of his game then?

Yes.

 

[fatprop]

So this would be my first test team

Sio
Uelese,
Kepu
Coleman,
Rodda
Pocock,
Hooper
Timu
Genia
Foley
Koroibete
Beale
Rona,
Maddocks
Folau

BPA
Robertson,
Tupou,
Philip
Samu,
Gordan
Hodge
DHP

 

[Derpus]

Has Maddocks really earnt a starting spot?

 

[fatprop]

Has Maddocks really earnt a starting spot?

On form I think so, DHP is likely to be picked though

 

[Derpus]

On form I think so, DHP is likely to be picked though

I thought when put under pressure by decent teams he really fell away badly. Waratahs in that second half. Hurricanes exploited him mercilessly.