Trans Tasman 2022

[Rebels3]

Again some people on here incapable of understanding 2 competitions in a season. Someone even said super rugby this year was only 4 home games, is it just me or did each Aussie team have 6 home games (minus Covid effected games) or 7 for some that got the extra fixture with the magic round been abandoned?

If you add the Drua to SRAU and MP (Moana Pasifika) to SRAo I’m pretty sure that’s 6 games a week, maybe my maths has failed me?

There is no stopping NZRU and RA packaging up SRAU/SRAo and some sort of Champions League comp to international markets, just like if you currently buy SA or NZ rugby rights you get Super Rugby and the Mitre10/Currie Cup. This would maximize revenue from overseas just like a full TT would.

As I have said numerous times a full TT won’t be play everyone twice it will be play your own country twice (+ 1 pacific team twice) and the other country once, totaling 16 weeks. Reason why it won’t be 22 weeks + finals is for one simple reason. If it was that format this year it would currently be round 18 of 22. Impossible to fit in as there is a test match in 3 weeks. To fit 22 weeks plus finals you’d have to start the season on the 9th Jan to finish this week, the 2nd Jan if you gave each team a bye and into the previous year for 2 byes. That’s just to get the regular season in without any finals. The season would start mid December to fit 2 finals and a bye in.

So we have 3 options

A) SRAU (play each Aussie teams x 2 and Drua x 2)
Champions League/TT format (play kiwi/Japanese teams x 4-6 games)

B) Full TT (play each Aussie x 2, Drua x 2, MP (Moana Pasifika) x 1, kiwi x 1)

C) SRAU (play each Aussie x 1, Drua x 1)
TT (play each Aussie x 1, Kiwi x 1, Drua x 1, MP (Moana Pasifika) x 1)

All have exactly the same amount of games, against the same teams and the same amount of times

It’s basically arguing around the format than the amount of games

 

[Brumby Runner]

R3 I accept most of your comments, and personally I would prefer the two competition arrangement so that one team in both NZ and Aus get crowned the national champ and then the TT is either an add on or is played concurrently with the domestic comps. But, for how long during Super Rugby did the Super comp go on hold during the June test window only to be re-established afterwards. What's to stop something similar happening around the July window if both Unions want a full two round TT comp? What else is on offer between the July tests and the RC?

 

[Rebels3]

R3 I accept most of your comments, and personally I would prefer the two competition arrangement so that one team in both NZ and Aus get crowned the national champ and then the TT is either an add on or is played concurrently with the domestic comps. But, for how long during Super Rugby did the Super comp go on hold during the June test window only to be re-established afterwards. What's to stop something similar happening around the July window if both Unions want a full two round TT comp? What else is on offer between the July tests and the RC?

It would require NZ to reduce or remove the NPC. Which isn’t going to happen. But yes could be an option for Aus however that’s something I don’t think Aus would ever realistically ask NZ to give up.

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^^^ Did the NPC/Mitre 10 Cup always start after Super Rugby had concluded when the Super Rugby comp was split? Or did it proceed without the Super Rugby players for a few rounds?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

This thread quickly became identical to the 1,000 page infinite loop that is The Thread Which Cannot Be Named.

Hey Dismal - you are entertaining but also very much pro kiwi rugby beyond oz rugby interests (understandably) so politely as you would respect - go fuck yourself - and for some reason others would be offended but I think you would get this and not be...lol...if I am wrong I know not to answer the front door for the next few days....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It is one thing to encourage $ recruitment. It's another to do this after reducing the cap. Doesn't make sense to me.

Yeh Dru I can't reconcile that - ie. we are shit and need to improve - RA solution: ok lets reduce the salary cap....Fuck me - where are we at for PE investment....

 

[Rebels3]

^^^^^^ Did the NPC/Mitre 10 Cup always start after Super Rugby had concluded when the Super Rugby comp was split? Or did it proceed without the Super Rugby players for a few rounds?

I’m not sure sorry

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I agree with what RN says about it being the way to go, but can any other outfits actually afford to import players??
Think that got shown when Tahs turned down Matera, they can say what they want about Hooper etc, but hell a player of that quality would help any team that could afford him.

Just out of interest why any open border or anything wouldn't work. Unfortunately everything comes back to money!

Yeh Dan hence my point - only side in the media recruiting players is the Force with a billionaire backing the force...nice place to be...but last time I checked no other oz super rugby side has this luxury...hence the concern...btw I am incredibly grateful Twiggy backing the force...but just more concerned for the rest of the poor east coast rugby cousins (lol)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Completely agree on all points.

Another reason I'm hoping for this potential 12 team full trans-tasman competition is having 6 games being played in the weekend rather than having just 2, which is the unsustainable reality of the isolated Aotearoa and AU comps.

If you're only able to play 2 games per weekend (rather than 6) that means 3x as much time is taken up rugby calendar due to a longer and less efficient competition. Who wants to see another slow AU + NZ comp chewing-up valuable time in the rugby calendar at the expense of less room in the calendar for actual test matches & no room for any potential cross-hemisphere/world-club championship type matches that are only beneficial to the game in the long-term?

The Aussies on here don't seem to get it.. the individual franchises need a minimum of 6 home matches just to make end's meet. To put it into perspective, Super Rugby went from 18 matches per team before Covid to just 8 - that's only 4 home matches a year!

WHat makes a succesful commercial product - ok number og agmes you have tapped into - tick - competitive games that create a contest and appeal - abysmal fail....you need to take a complete picture here for why TT as you have not got anything which resembles a successful commercial product from bigger picture criteria but rather just one element of what makes a successful product.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yet funnily enough in 2015 Super rugby was drawing the biggest average crowds in any club/Franchise comp in world.
Even in 2019 these are average crowds in Wales
Scarlets: 8,443, Cardiff Blues: 7,360, Ospreys: 6,812, Dragons: 5,123
And France top 14 has between 7000-21000 crowds

So have the crowds been as bad as some are claiming?

Dan just frigging stop the BS - Trends in Super Rugby crowds are undeniably bad - moreso in SA and Oz (get the picture - NZ winners keeps NZ crowds - Oz and SA losers doesn't). Hence this sums up the problem as kiwis can still be interested in thrashing oz or SA sides as they are winners and everyone loves winners...but does FA for oz and SA rugby interests. SA have solved this problem but Oz has not as yet as dealing with new kiwi designed Super Rugby competition and buggered if oz teams being losers every week to kiwi teams going to work for oz fan base.

So keep the delusion RA will sign up to NZRU designed competition that produces lopsided contests with NZ winners every week which delivers on kiwi / nzru interests but not anybody outside of Nz interests. My view oz been shafted for years by kiwi led Super Rugby interests which MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua about to experience.....NZRU needs to start taking a bigger picture Asia Pacific view or risk being jettisoned by other Asia Pacific partners who chooose to look at alternatives (Oz domestic competition, GRR Mark 2.0 etc).

NZRU arrogance of their own self importance could be their downfall imo if they haven't or won't pull their head in.

 

[Dan54]

^^^^^^ Did the NPC/Mitre 10 Cup always start after Super Rugby had concluded when the Super Rugby comp was split? Or did it proceed without the Super Rugby players for a few rounds?

Generally the ITM starts about the time of RC. ie; Early to mid Ausgust, and goes to Oct.

 

[Dan54]

Dan just frigging stop the BS - Trends in Super Rugby crowds are undeniably bad - moreso in SA and Oz (get the picture - NZ winners keeps NZ crowds - Oz and SA losers doesn't). Hence this sums up the problem as kiwis can still be interested in thrashing oz or SA sides as they are winners and everyone loves winners.but does FA for oz and SA rugby interests. SA have solved this problem but Oz has not as yet as dealing with new kiwi designed Super Rugby competition and buggered if oz teams being losers every week to kiwi teams going to work for oz fan base.

So keep the delusion RA will sign up to NZRU designed competition that produces lopsided contests with NZ winners every week which delivers on kiwi / nzru interests but not anybody outside of Nz interests. My view oz been shafted for years by kiwi led Super Rugby interests which MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua about to experience...NZRU needs to start taking a bigger picture Asia Pacific view or risk being jettisoned by other Asia Pacific partners who chooose to look at alternatives (Oz domestic competition, GRR Mark 2.0 etc).

NZRU arrogance of their own self importance could be their downfall imo if they haven't or won't pull their head in.

Just out of interest RN, so you don't think there will be a TT comp next year? So whats the point of this thread?
(With falling attendances, the Top 14 is starting to lose its lustre ...

https://www.rugbyworld.com › News

9/01/2018— Of the fourteen clubs in thetopflight ofFrenchrugby, only Clermont and La Rochelle have seen their averagecrowdsrise this season, the latter ...)

And crowds are down in Super rugby in Oz, SA and NZ. But I am only saying that the crowds are down all over the place, and if we can pull in better average crowds than from the comps we think are the best, in countries that have much bigger populations, are they as bad as we think?
And why are Aus Super coaches wanting the it? And were the crowds for Super AU up this year?
Noone is saying super couldn't do with a tweek ( but open border wher e NZ can buy the best Aus players isn't good) , and already one of the things you want is perhaps close to happening, another team from NZ, which is where I thing 50-70% of MP (Moana Pasifika) team will come from.

Anyway I what the thread was aimed at, I wondering if MP (Moana Pasifika) will make a difference to Blues next year in support as well as lose many players. More wider squad players, there is a couple of boys at Chiefs I know are fairly good who played a bit that I think either MP (Moana Pasifika) or Aus teams should be chasing.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

God, no. We can always use an overflow tank.

Nah Dismal is just pissed that he largely only has a few kiwis to play with in the TT match threads and moreso the TT final thread and to admire all his nz blues gifs (because most rugby supporters on here probably had enough of this seasons TT and could not give a shit which kiwi team wins it )

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Again some people on here incapable of understanding 2 competitions in a season. Someone even said super rugby this year was only 4 home games, is it just me or did each Aussie team have 6 home games (minus Covid effected games) or 7 for some that got the extra fixture with the magic round been abandoned?

If you add the Drua to SRAU and MP (Moana Pasifika) to SRAo I’m pretty sure that’s 6 games a week, maybe my maths has failed me?

There is no stopping NZRU and RA packaging up SRAU/SRAo and some sort of Champions League comp to international markets, just like if you currently buy SA or NZ rugby rights you get Super Rugby and the Mitre10/Currie Cup. This would maximize revenue from overseas just like a full TT would.

As I have said numerous times a full TT won’t be play everyone twice it will be play your own country twice (+ 1 pacific team twice) and the other country once, totaling 16 weeks. Reason why it won’t be 22 weeks + finals is for one simple reason. If it was that format this year it would currently be round 18 of 22. Impossible to fit in as there is a test match in 3 weeks. To fit 22 weeks plus finals you’d have to start the season on the 9th Jan to finish this week, the 2nd Jan if you gave each team a bye and into the previous year for 2 byes. That’s just to get the regular season in without any finals. The season would start mid December to fit 2 finals and a bye in.

So we have 3 options

A) SRAU (play each Aussie teams x 2 and Drua x 2)
Champions League/TT format (play kiwi/Japanese teams x 4-6 games)

B) Full TT (play each Aussie x 2, Drua x 2, MP (Moana Pasifika) x 1, kiwi x 1)

C) SRAU (play each Aussie x 1, Drua x 1)
TT (play each Aussie x 1, Kiwi x 1, Drua x 1, MP (Moana Pasifika) x 1)

All have exactly the same amount of games, against the same teams and the same amount of times

It’s basically arguing around the format than the amount of games

I tried to get this thread back on about teams then competition structure but I guess that was always doomed. Maybe we can get Dan and Dismal to start a Trans Tasman positivity thread where only allowed to praise TT and limit membership to Kiwis and very rusted on (who only want full TT and nothing else). That way the 5 posters this limits us to can knock themselves out.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Just out of interest RN, so you don't think there will be a TT comp next year? So whats the point of this thread?
(With falling attendances, the Top 14 is starting to lose its lustre .

https://www.rugbyworld.com › News

9/01/2018— Of the fourteen clubs in thetopflight ofFrenchrugby, only Clermont and La Rochelle have seen their averagecrowdsrise this season, the latter .)

And crowds are down in Super rugby in Oz, SA and NZ. But I am only saying that the crowds are down all over the place, and if we can pull in better average crowds than from the comps we think are the best, in countries that have much bigger populations, are they as bad as we think?
And why are Aus Super coaches wanting the it? And were the crowds for Super AU up this year?
Noone is saying super couldn't do with a tweek ( but open border wher e NZ can buy the best Aus players isn't good) , and already one of the things you want is perhaps close to happening, another team from NZ, which is where I thing 50-70% of MP (Moana Pasifika) team will come from.

Anyway I what the thread was aimed at, I wondering if MP (Moana Pasifika) will make a difference to Blues next year in support as well as lose many players. More wider squad players, there is a couple of boys at Chiefs I know are fairly good who played a bit that I think either MP (Moana Pasifika) or Aus teams should be chasing.

I will give my view very directly - I think the whole idea of 5 kiwi sides pitched against 5 oz without allowing for more free flow of players is the most stupid idea if people think this is ever going to work in our lifetime. If nz was australia it would increase the number of teams but because it isn’t it (too small a country) it won’t. While because we are oz and competing in crowded footy market we can’t have less then 5 teams and longer term would need to be aiming for more to be relevant and defend against other codes who continue to increase their footprint.

So if you accept those basic facts then what is the answer that makes TT work and provide close contests. There are only so many options and maybe a package of options. But if you think it is just Australia reforming and improving and you think fans will be patient for that to happen over the next decade then you really are delusional and sitting in a rusted on bubble. You say no open borders etc but don’t provide any solution which means you really accept that TT has no future other then being a nzru competition that serves kiwi interests.

 

[Dan54]

I tried to get this thread back on about teams then competition structure but I guess that was always doomed. Maybe we can get Dan and Dismal to start a Trans Tasman positivity thread where only allowed to praise TT and limit membership to Kiwis and very rusted on (who only want full TT and nothing else). That way the 5 posters this limits us to can knock themselves out.

Fair enough RN, I will leave thread to you mate, you can keep telling everyone how a TT won't work, so perhaps you should of started the thread under th title 'Why there will be no Trans Tasman in 2022'. I really though it was about how teams etc would perform next year. But knock yourself out mate.​

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Fair enough RN, I will leave thread to you mate, you can keep telling everyone how a TT won't work, so perhaps you should of started the thread under th title 'Why there will be no Trans Tasman in 2022'. I really though it was about how teams etc would perform next year. But knock yourself out mate.

Yeh I was trying to keep it about teams - anyhow the point is Dan I try to suggest how things could work but all you do is go no they won’t work but don’t suggest solutions. Again I am tired of just being told ideas out in the general public i raise won’t work (no ideas I raise are new ideas and well peddled out in the press) but yet you offer no solutions and just put it on RA to solve.

People might get uppity about people posting ideas for change but they do so because we have the shit show we just had with last TT leading to a repeat of the last super rugby fiasco. These are genuine rugby fans who are just tired of the same shit product and want something better. People are fed up and frustrated and ratings and game attendances falling off a cliff since 2014 for super rugby in oz supports that.