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Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

Rebels3

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
QLD dominated the 2 previous versions of the Super 20s.

As for are they our best players? They were generally younger than alot of the other teams been put on paper, at this age that adds to quite a lot in terms of physical development, maturity and professional habits.

Will we be a good team here? Who knows, it kinda looks a little lite on known names but that doesn't mean they wont be known.

Will some of the 7s boys get involved, similar to last year?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The Honey Badger said:
If incumbency was a factor, you would think a player like Dan Mathews would be back in the frame, after playing Oceania last year. Don't think he made any squad.

So there must be some very good front row boys this year.


So if all the Qld boys played school championships 2015, then this gets back to Qld school system finishing a year younger than the rest of Aus.

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Lots of people get two years in the under 20s. By my count there are 7 repeat players from the 2017 Under 20 World Cup squad in this squad and only four are Queenslanders.

To my knowledge, not that many year 11 kids get invited to the national schoolboys champs.
 
Silverado

Silverado

Dick Tooth (41)
Joe James said:
Unfortunately the statistics don't back up your claim. Last time these boys competed against each other was at the National Schoolboy Championships in 2016. Results were
Champions: NSW 2
Runners Up: NSW 1
Third: Combined States
Fourth: Victoria
Fifth: Queensland II
Sixth: Queensland I
Seventh: ACT
Queensland were hardly a dominant side for this age group.

Queensland however did dominate the selections for the National Schoolboys team with 9/25.
Interestingly the head Australian selector for that squad was from Queensland and is the same selector for this squad.
Our results for that team against New Zealand were loss 32-23 and loss 28-17 to NZ Barbarians
It appears history is repeating itself in selections and we are expecting a different result.Crazy??

The fact that many of these boys have flowed straight into the Reds Super Rugby team is more a reflection on the fact that the Reds have been for many years struggling at the bottom of the Super Rugby ladder and are attempting to rebuild with youth. Under 20s players from the stronger states do not get that luxury. Obviously if you are playing Super Rugby or sitting on a bench in the eyes of selectors you are a lay down misere for a spot in the squad but this severely disadvantages great players from the stronger states who don't put U20s in their squads.
This is obvious from the 14 QLD selected v 6 NSW(Charlie Hancock is a Brumbie)

The ARU has to take a long hard look at how our National U20s teams are being selected. A QLD coach and a QLD selector is always going to result in a QLD dominated side.
Given the Reds results however is this good for Australian Rugby????
Click to expand...
I think the statistics do back me up. I'm not talking about Schoolboys, the under 20s have been running a Super Rugby type comp for the past few years to Select an Australian under20s team and Queensland have won easily for the last 3 years, despite NSW being dominant at Schoolboy level in 2014 and 2015 .Queensland has subsequently had the bulk of under 20 players in those years. Brad Thorn was their coach last year and he's brought some very good talent through the NRC and now Super Rugby


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Silverado

Silverado

Dick Tooth (41)
^^^
You also have to remember that Qld finish school a year earlier, so at under 20s they are matched by age


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bloodred

bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
Joe James said:
Unfortunately the statistics don't back up your claim. Last time these boys competed against each other was at the National Schoolboy Championships in 2016. Results were
Champions: NSW 2
Runners Up: NSW 1
Third: Combined States
Fourth: Victoria
Fifth: Queensland II
Sixth: Queensland I
Seventh: ACT
Queensland were hardly a dominant side for this age group.

Queensland however did dominate the selections for the National Schoolboys team with 9/25.
Interestingly the head Australian selector for that squad was from Queensland and is the same selector for this squad.
Our results for that team against New Zealand were loss 32-23 and loss 28-17 to NZ Barbarians
It appears history is repeating itself in selections and we are expecting a different result.Crazy??

The fact that many of these boys have flowed straight into the Reds Super Rugby team is more a reflection on the fact that the Reds have been for many years struggling at the bottom of the Super Rugby ladder and are attempting to rebuild with youth. Under 20s players from the stronger states do not get that luxury. Obviously if you are playing Super Rugby or sitting on a bench in the eyes of selectors you are a lay down misere for a spot in the squad but this severely disadvantages great players from the stronger states who don't put U20s in their squads.
This is obvious from the 14 QLD selected v 6 NSW(Charlie Hancock is a Brumbie)

The ARU has to take a long hard look at how our National U20s teams are being selected. A QLD coach and a QLD selector is always going to result in a QLD dominated side.
Given the Reds results however is this good for Australian Rugby????
Click to expand...

As Braveheart says, I think the team will reflect more on the Qld Schoolboys from 2015 and NSW Schools from 2016. I don't know the results from those years but hopefully the selectors have picked the best U/20 team. Good question about Will Eadie as he is playing for U of Q
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The 2015 Schoolboys final was (from memory from when I looked it up earlier today) a 22-20 victory to NSW over Qld which shows they were pretty close then and if the Qld boys were generally a year younger shows that they were a talented bunch.
 
The Honey Badger

The Honey Badger

Jim Lenehan (48)
bloodred said:
As Braveheart says, I think the team will reflect more on the Qld Schoolboys from 2015 and NSW Schools from 2016. I don't know the results from those years but hopefully the selectors have picked the best U/20 team. Good question about Will Eadie as he is playing for U of Q
Click to expand...
For NSW boys, 2016 was the final year of school (for most) , and most would have been U18 then. So they are now U20.

This would be the year the dominant NSW Schoolboys of 2016 would be selected. But apparently not the case

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SOLE334

SOLE334

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Joe James said:
Unfortunately the statistics don't back up your claim. Last time these boys competed against each other was at the National Schoolboy Championships in 2016. Results were
Champions: NSW 2
Runners Up: NSW 1
Third: Combined States
Fourth: Victoria
Fifth: Queensland II
Sixth: Queensland I
Seventh: ACT
Queensland were hardly a dominant side for this age group.

Queensland however did dominate the selections for the National Schoolboys team with 9/25.
Interestingly the head Australian selector for that squad was from Queensland and is the same selector for this squad.
Our results for that team against New Zealand were loss 32-23 and loss 28-17 to NZ Barbarians
It appears history is repeating itself in selections and we are expecting a different result.Crazy??

The fact that many of these boys have flowed straight into the Reds Super Rugby team is more a reflection on the fact that the Reds have been for many years struggling at the bottom of the Super Rugby ladder and are attempting to rebuild with youth. Under 20s players from the stronger states do not get that luxury. Obviously if you are playing Super Rugby or sitting on a bench in the eyes of selectors you are a lay down misere for a spot in the squad but this severely disadvantages great players from the stronger states who don't put U20s in their squads.
This is obvious from the 14 QLD selected v 6 NSW(Charlie Hancock is a Brumbie)

The ARU has to take a long hard look at how our National U20s teams are being selected. A QLD coach and a QLD selector is always going to result in a QLD dominated side.
Given the Reds results however is this good for Australian Rugby????
Click to expand...


Joe James you are making it very obvious youre a disgruntled parent.chill
Silverados comment said : "The Reds have been very dominant in this age group for the last few years. Good to see a lot of them flow straight into Super Rugby". Its U/20's not schoolboys, which most of the Qld boys didint play in(2016). The REDS U/20's have won it 2 years in a row. So some merit in selection here mate.
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
SOLE334 said:
Joe James you are making it very obvious youre a disgruntled parent.chill
Silverados comment said : "The Reds have been very dominant in this age group for the last few years. Good to see a lot of them flow straight into Super Rugby". Its U/20's not schoolboys, which most of the Qld boys didint play in(2016). The REDS U/20's have won it 2 years in a row. So some merit in selection here mate.
Click to expand...

Except the first of those 2 years would not have involved any in this group.
Last year's U20s Reds were very good - they did a serious number on NSW in the final, IIRC.
They were coached by Thorne who took some of them with him to the Reds.
The issue here is the one that was identified when the Super 20s comp was abolished for the 1998 born players (i.e. those who would have played this year, 2 years out of school). Inevitably it was going to be picked as follows:
  1. Super contracted players
  2. 2017 Aus U20s
  3. 2016 Oz schools - with one bolter that I know of, who left in 2015 but was young, namely Ramm who played 3rds @ Joeys that year.
 
SOLE334

SOLE334

Jimmy Flynn (14)
^^^^
Also, these Qld schoolboys were not selected for 2016 Aust schoolboys team due to injuries, didnt get picked and too young(mo).
  1. Angus Blyth(injured)
  2. Trevor Hosea(injured)
  3. Leni Ikitau (not selected)
  4. Semisi Tupou(not selected)
  5. Pat Tafa(not selected)
  6. Jordan Petaia(too young born 2000)
  7. Tom Kibble (too young born 2000)
 
J

Joe James

Stan Wickham (3)
SOLE334 said:
Joe James you are making it very obvious youre a disgruntled parent.chill
Silverados comment said : "The Reds have been very dominant in this age group for the last few years. Good to see a lot of them flow straight into Super Rugby". Its U/20's not schoolboys, which most of the Qld boys didint play in(2016). The REDS U/20's have won it 2 years in a row. So some merit in selection here mate.
Click to expand...



Only three of those boys played in the dominant Reds U20s side that won last year McDermott, Hoopert and Hockings.
The majority of those Qld selected did play in 2016 and although soundly beaten were selected for the National side???
Just as a final word on the disparity in selections (with real statistics) I thought it would be good to see where all the boys selected for our “Australian National” team came from.
Bearing in mind that five states play rugby union!!!!
So here is the breakdown
19 Queensland
Harry Hockings, QLD, lock Anglican Church Grammar School QLD
Matt Faessler, QLD, hooker Toowoomba Grammar School QLD
Harry Hoopert, QLD, prop Toowoomba Grammar School QLD
Efi Ma'afu, QLD, hooker Ipswich Grammar QLD
Tate McDermott, QLD, scrumhalf Toowoomba Grammar QLD
Angus Blyth, QLD, lock Southport School QLD
Justin Sikimeti , ACT, backrow St Patricks College QLD
Patrick Tafa, NSW, backrow Brisbane State High School QLD
Tom Kibble, QLD, backrow Brisbane Boys College QLD
Josh Nasser, QLD, prop St Josephs Gregory Terrace QLD
Fraser McReight, QLD, backrow Brisbane Grammar School QLD
Trevor Hosea, VIC, lock Brisbane Boys College QLD
Len Ikitau, ACT, centre Brisbane Boys College QLD
Lawson Creighton, QLD,fullback Padua College QLD
Tony Hunt, QLD, centre St Josephs College Nudgee QLD
Hayden Sargeant, QLD, wing Southport School QLD
Isaac Lucas, QLD, flyhalf St Josephs College Gregory Terrace
Jordan Petaia, QLD, centre Brisbane State High School QLD
Semisi Tupou, VIC, fullback St Josephs College Nudgee QLD

8 NSW
James Ramm, NSW, wing St Josephs College NSW
Harrison Goddard, VIC, scrumhalf Oakhill College NSW
Josh Kemeny, NSW, backrow Cranbrook NSW
Hugh Margin, NSW, lock Knox Grammar NSW
Esei Ha'angana, VIC, backrow Westfield Sports High NSW
George Francis, NSW, prop Westfield Sports High NSW
Bayley Kuenzle, NSW, flyhalf Newington College NSW
Sama Malolo, VIC, hooker Randwick Boys High School NSW

5 ACT
Charlie Hancock, NSW, prop Canberra Grammar ACT
Tom Ross, ACT, prop Daramalan College ACT
Mack Hansen, ACT, fullback Daramalan College ACT
Ryan Lonergan, ACT, scrumhalf Trinity Christian College ACT
Isiah Latu, ACT, centre Erindale College ACT


My point remains statistically valid
When these players have not competed against each other in a National competition since 2016 where NSW was 1st and 2nd and QLD was 5th and 6th how can there be such a disparity in the selections from each state.
Having selector and coach from one state is no way to pick a “National” team
And as and aside
How can two 18 year old’s be picked from Queensland over 20 year olds from around the country when they have never competed against them????
 
The Honey Badger

The Honey Badger

Jim Lenehan (48)
Does anyone on this site know how many registered players born in 1998 there are in both Qld and NSW.?

I am guessing, there are many more NSW registered players, but I don't know.

If it were the case, you would have to think there must be some bias with the Qld selections running at 2 to 1.




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Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The Honey Badger said:
Does anyone on this site know how many registered players born in 1998 there are in both Qld and NSW.?

I am guessing, there are many more NSW registered players, but I don't know.

If it were the case, you would have to think there must be some bias with the Qld selections running at 2 to 1.




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Did you see last year's Super 20s final?
Thanks to the boffins at RA headquarters that's the last time any of us got to see a comparison and based on that game that seems about right.
 
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