bhim
Chris McKivat (8)
The worst loss definitely. I would want to see if they could bounce back for these next two games first, especially against England
The game was hard to watch and sadly the AUS u20s quality wasn’t any better than watching two top tier colts teams go head to head in the Sydney comp. I hope AUS u20s find form and get the right players on the field, before the campaign gets away on them. Have read the posts here and on other platforms and as the captain said there isn't any excuses, this is the WC u20s and the standard should really be elite. In retrospect, there was no comparison to the AUS u20s TRC team that took the intensity and physicality to the SAF a few months ago. The SAF were always going to come out to play at the WC, as they previously did in the first 40mins against both AUS & NZ in the TRC, but the SAF just couldn't last the 80mins at that time. The TRC game was faster paced and AUS weathered the SAF first half physical storm by managing the game and field position much better and coming over the top of them when they had tired them somewhat. In this WC encounter the SAF made 5 changes to their team, whilst AUS coaches made 7 changes to that of the team that played the TRC game? The AUS forwards found their feet and did their bit & winger Watters workload and skill competence was high and he was exceptional holding up the backs effort. The ball players (9, 10, 15) executed poorly and along with the 13 & other winger made too many mistakes, dropped balls, missed tackles for this elite level. With the slower game, the attack shape being lost and only small defensive exits and average in field kicking not impacting, it was hard for AUS to get out of trouble and free from their danger zone of which is a primary defense against big mobile forward pack/teams. The coaches/team needs to go back to basics, have a better strategy and swap out some injured players, as they may survive Scotland, but the team as it stands currently, won’t stop the English if they get going like the SAF did.
Have to ask, where was the AUS u20s starting 10 (who also plays 15 from the REDS or West Force I think) from the SAF TRC and Japan u23s games? The big tall guy seemed to be calm, communicated and coordinated traffic well, had great hands and kept the SAF and Japan teams at bay with an exceptional boot, plus could goal kick with accuracy and demonstrated far less mistakes and a better defensive effort, than what we saw in this last game. Although I am from nsw and could be considered somewhat blinded by our local talent, it is supposed to be a national elite team and it is about performance. A game managing 10 is critical to a teams success, so it seems there is a way to go on how we select these teams, if AUS are missing players who have presence on the field and have demonstrated their capacity at level in fast, physical games like that?
Prass. Didn’t get picked. He has a big boot but not much else.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Yeah, he's limited and a very rough potential diamond at this stage.
Personally would have Dillon as the 10. More off the cuff than the cookie cutter 10s we can always throw out there. He's also not a small body at 10.
Personally would have Dillon as the 10. More off the cuff than the cookie cutter 10s we can always throw out there. He's also not a small body at 10.
It's hard to work out.
Their performances in the under 20 Rugby Championships were some of the best we've seen in years.
They've then suffered probably their biggest defeat ever against South Africa.
If South Africa goes on to win the tournament it will definitely look a lot better.
We need to bounce back and beat Scotland and be competitive against England.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
We also have this convo every few years when someone blows them out. Because the Wallabies have generally been a top tier side on the world stage come WCs we assume our U202, 21s will be the same but I don't think it's ever really been the case.
We will likely produce 3-4 genuine long term Wallabies from these sides and 8-9 pros who will have a meaningful 4+ year career. When you tally those numbers across a playing generation of 5-6 years it is what supports the Wallabies and our Super Rugby sides when you then count the senior players aged 28+ and then guys below them who will push up.
They still have a couple of games left in the tournament so it's not over but in general the system is producing far more competitive teams then what was showing up 5 years ago and before that (Besides 2019 that had some genuine freaks playing). Some of those guys would be pasted by the NZ Schools then carry it through to the 20s.
Since this version of the JWC has been played (2008) Aus have been Runner-Up twice and 3rd once and 4th once. The structure of the tournament is a bastard and I'm sure we would have some more top 4 finishes in a 4x4 comp but still.
A lot of people herald the Irish system lately but they sit with runner-up twice and 4th twice. England, France and NZ dominate this stage and with the sheer numbers of players it's not surprising.
We will likely produce 3-4 genuine long term Wallabies from these sides and 8-9 pros who will have a meaningful 4+ year career. When you tally those numbers across a playing generation of 5-6 years it is what supports the Wallabies and our Super Rugby sides when you then count the senior players aged 28+ and then guys below them who will push up.
They still have a couple of games left in the tournament so it's not over but in general the system is producing far more competitive teams then what was showing up 5 years ago and before that (Besides 2019 that had some genuine freaks playing). Some of those guys would be pasted by the NZ Schools then carry it through to the 20s.
Since this version of the JWC has been played (2008) Aus have been Runner-Up twice and 3rd once and 4th once. The structure of the tournament is a bastard and I'm sure we would have some more top 4 finishes in a 4x4 comp but still.
A lot of people herald the Irish system lately but they sit with runner-up twice and 4th twice. England, France and NZ dominate this stage and with the sheer numbers of players it's not surprising.
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The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
World Rugby U20 Championship - Wikipedia
Well put together page if you want to look at trends. Aus and SA are remarkably consistent.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Iv'e gone down a rabbit hole.
It's astonishing how many have a Test cap although there are a lot that will sit with 1-5 games and not 20+which is really then an established Test player and not someone given a crack. Edmed, Maddocks, Stewart are not in the same category as Bell, McReight, Valetini etc.
It is then very noticeable the amount of guys that never had a pro career along side so many guys who got Test caps.
Few guys are double counted if they made the squad in different years as well as people like Tuipolotu, Lomax who have played for other nations.
Internationals by year:
2015: 7 out of 28 - 5th
2016: 8 out of 28 - 6th
2017: 10 out of 29 - 6th
2018: 8 out of 28 - 5th
2019: 10 out of 26 - 2nd (unbelievable amount of talent in this side)Bell, McReight, Loloseio, Donaldson, Wilson, Nawaqanitawse, Frost, Tuipolotu) Genuine Test players. Then L Lonergan, Nasser, Van Nek, Tizzano in this squad as well. Will Harris, Will Harrison, Reilly are mugs in this lot but stand outs in other years.
2020: 9 out of 35 - NC Spicy cough
Comps after this from 2023 feel unfair to count as the players are still in the development years.
Not going to compare to other countries as it serves no purpose with different playing environments but when we average about 8 getting at least one Test cap it's fairly safe to assume that only 2-4 of them will have a long Test career. If Aus can do that routinely you have 7-8 years of developing 3 stars each year that's a Wallaby match day squad. Then add the bolters like Jorgo, war horses like Slipper and the form/testing picks like Nasser, Lancaster and you have the Wallabies. I don't really see a time where we have 50+ legitimate guns in country unless RL was made illegal. Maybe the third tier comp will help but I think it will have more capacity to strengthen the depth within our Super Rugby sides and over a long period of time through competition for spots develop more Wallabies.
It's astonishing how many have a Test cap although there are a lot that will sit with 1-5 games and not 20+which is really then an established Test player and not someone given a crack. Edmed, Maddocks, Stewart are not in the same category as Bell, McReight, Valetini etc.
It is then very noticeable the amount of guys that never had a pro career along side so many guys who got Test caps.
Few guys are double counted if they made the squad in different years as well as people like Tuipolotu, Lomax who have played for other nations.
Internationals by year:
2015: 7 out of 28 - 5th
2016: 8 out of 28 - 6th
2017: 10 out of 29 - 6th
2018: 8 out of 28 - 5th
2019: 10 out of 26 - 2nd (unbelievable amount of talent in this side)Bell, McReight, Loloseio, Donaldson, Wilson, Nawaqanitawse, Frost, Tuipolotu) Genuine Test players. Then L Lonergan, Nasser, Van Nek, Tizzano in this squad as well. Will Harris, Will Harrison, Reilly are mugs in this lot but stand outs in other years.
2020: 9 out of 35 - NC Spicy cough
Comps after this from 2023 feel unfair to count as the players are still in the development years.
Not going to compare to other countries as it serves no purpose with different playing environments but when we average about 8 getting at least one Test cap it's fairly safe to assume that only 2-4 of them will have a long Test career. If Aus can do that routinely you have 7-8 years of developing 3 stars each year that's a Wallaby match day squad. Then add the bolters like Jorgo, war horses like Slipper and the form/testing picks like Nasser, Lancaster and you have the Wallabies. I don't really see a time where we have 50+ legitimate guns in country unless RL was made illegal. Maybe the third tier comp will help but I think it will have more capacity to strengthen the depth within our Super Rugby sides and over a long period of time through competition for spots develop more Wallabies.
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Wilson
John Eales (66)
That 2019 squad was truly insane:
There are a few other guys there who could easily have been wallaby capped if things had played out differently too, Isaac Lucas chief amongst them. Others like Reilly and Van Nek could easily be capped over the next few years.
Bold for wallabies, underline for pro, italics for the Kye Oates, the only player who hasn't gone on to play pro yet. I say yet because Kye is a good player who has been on the fringe of a Super contract or the 7s for a few seasons - he played for the Brumby Runners this year for example.
There are a few other guys there who could easily have been wallaby capped if things had played out differently too, Isaac Lucas chief amongst them. Others like Reilly and Van Nek could easily be capped over the next few years.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Not even fringe pros but fully established ones in the likes of Harris, Walton. Harrison likely would have a cap if not for injury and Walton has been in squads although I don't see him as a long term option at the next level. Lucas is another who would have got a Test. This group if all injury free and stayed in country could get to 15 Test players.
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