Wallabies 2019 Thread

[Braveheart81]

Theres only been a little bit of research around it but there's evidence that shows that especially short term, team performances improve when a coach is fired and a new one comes in. Happens semi regularly in the NRL

The question is what is a reasonable alternative though.

None of the assistants seem like good candidates and Larkham is clearly the only one you could consider making the interim coach. Would that be a good idea?

White and Johnson have supposedly put their hand up but neither would do it without longer tenure being offered. If one of them would be your desired candidate to appoint in 2020 then sure, but if not, are you locking yourself in to a coach you don't actually want long term just because that's what's needed to sign them now?

I think Johnson is a more palatable appointment than White. What do you do with assistants though? Will new assistants of choice be available now or will they be substandard? Would forcing a new coach to work with the current ones be detrimental?

It's a tough decision. My personal feeling is that things are a basket case now but making a change now will cost a lot of money and probably won't achieve much for the RWC next year. A new appointment should only be made if they're considered the preferred option from 2020 onwards regardless of what happens next year.

 

[Derpus]

The question is what is a reasonable alternative though.

None of the assistants seem like good candidates and Larkham is clearly the only one you could consider making the interim coach. Would that be a good idea?

White and Johnson have supposedly put their hand up but neither would do it without longer tenure being offered. If one of them would be your desired candidate to appoint in 2020 then sure, but if not, are you locking yourself in to a coach you don't actually want long term just because that's what's needed to sign them now?

I think Johnson is a more palatable appointment than White. What do you do with assistants though? Will new assistants of choice be available now or will they be substandard? Would forcing a new coach to work with the current ones be detrimental?

It's a tough decision. My personal feeling is that things are a basket case now but making a change now will cost a lot of money and probably won't achieve much for the RWC next year. A new appointment should only be made if they're considered the preferred option from 2020 onwards regardless of what happens next year.

Are we expecting the coaches market to open up 2020 onwards? If we are left with the same options then, may as well do it now.

 

[southsider]

The question is what is a reasonable alternative though.

None of the assistants seem like good candidates and Larkham is clearly the only one you could consider making the interim coach. Would that be a good idea?

White and Johnson have supposedly put their hand up but neither would do it without longer tenure being offered. If one of them would be your desired candidate to appoint in 2020 then sure, but if not, are you locking yourself in to a coach you don't actually want long term just because that's what's needed to sign them now?

I think Johnson is a more palatable appointment than White. What do you do with assistants though? Will new assistants of choice be available now or will they be substandard? Would forcing a new coach to work with the current ones be detrimental?

It's a tough decision. My personal feeling is that things are a basket case now but making a change now will cost a lot of money and probably won't achieve much for the RWC next year. A new appointment should only be made if they're considered the preferred option from 2020 onwards regardless of what happens next year.

More than happy for white to be given a couple of years, get our core group of players playing consistent footy, whites influence on the brumbies was still evident 1-2 years after he left. Chuck in Laurie Fisher and we are going places

 

[KOB1987]

The other concern with changing is we do all that and it costs a heap of money, we bomb out of the RWC and then in a few years time we're still ranked 6 or 7 or worse because the problems aren't all the coach at all, it's the player pool and/or the systemic issues and/or a combination of all three. Wrong thread I know..

 

[Braveheart81]

Are we expecting the coaches market to open up 2020 onwards? If we are left with the same options then, may as well do it now.

A number of international coaches would be on contracts that conclude at the end of 2019.

You also have every Northern Hemisphere club coach that are currently mid season.

The timing now means that you end up making a rushed decision from a pool that is much smaller than you would be looking at a year later.

 

[chasmac]

The other concern with changing is we do all that and it costs a heap of money, we bomb out of the RWC and then in a few years time we're still ranked 6 or 7 or worse because the problems aren't all the coach at all, it's the player pool and/or the systemic issues and/or a combination of all three. Wrong thread I know..

I'm a big believer in the centralised player contracts.
Ireland is the template we need to follow.
RA needs to consider that there is a serious threat to their further existence with Twiggy presenting as a viable alternative.
RA needs to act quickly to keep what little credibility they have.
I don't rate Grey or Larkham or Cheika
If White and Johnson are available then get them both plus Laurie Fisher.
There is so much to do with no time available and no $$ to spend.
Grassroots gets ignored again while the shit at the top gets sorted.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I definitely think we need Lord Laurie in the mix, at a minimum as forwards coach. Get Peter Ryan as defence coach too.

 

[KevinO]

I definitely think we need Lord Laurie in the mix, at a minimum as forwards coach. Get Peter Ryan as defence coach too.

Add big Jim Williams to the ticket as well.

 

[Braveheart81]

My option for next year would be to fire Simon Raiwalui and Nathan Grey and think pretty heavily about firing Larkham.

Keep Cheika for the RWC because it's too late and too expensive to change that. There isn't the time to properly hire a new head coach who will certainly be offered at least 2 years and probably longer. I'd expect most would want three years, two of which must be with all their own assistants.

Bring in a couple of "mentors" to oversee a reasonable amount of training and be part of squad and team selections. I think Cheika still gets final say in selections but an interim step because you can't afford to fire him right now seems to be to put a couple more trusted people in the circle to try and have a bit of positive influence.

Hiring a new head coach and giving them the right to hire assistants now would be unbelievably expensive for RA. I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth the potential return (which would be minimal).

There is limited time to prepare next year and little chance to substantially change the players involved even if you thought those changes were required.

 

[LearningCurve]

My option for next year would be to fire Simon Raiwalui and Nathan Grey and think pretty heavily about firing Larkham.

Keep Cheika for the RWC because it's too late and too expensive to change that. There isn't the time to properly hire a new head coach who will certainly be offered at least 2 years and probably longer. I'd expect most would want three years, two of which must be with all their own assistants.

Bring in a couple of "mentors" to oversee a reasonable amount of training and be part of squad and team selections. I think Cheika still gets final say in selections but an interim step because you can't afford to fire him right now seems to be to put a couple more trusted people in the circle to try and have a bit of positive influence.

Hiring a new head coach and giving them the right to hire assistants now would be unbelievably expensive for RA. I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth the potential return (which would be minimal).

There is limited time to prepare next year and little chance to substantially change the players involved even if you thought those changes were required.

Why think about firing Larkham? Surely he's had a lot longer to make an impact than Simon Raiwalui yet hasn't delivered.

I agree that it would be expensive for RA to get rid of everyone, especially Cheika so they probably won't do it. I expect them to just carry onto the RWC and hope everyone forgets about the poor performance.

 

[Derpus]

My option for next year would be to fire Simon Raiwalui and Nathan Grey and think pretty heavily about firing Larkham.

Keep Cheika for the RWC because it's too late and too expensive to change that. There isn't the time to properly hire a new head coach who will certainly be offered at least 2 years and probably longer. I'd expect most would want three years, two of which must be with all their own assistants.

Bring in a couple of "mentors" to oversee a reasonable amount of training and be part of squad and team selections. I think Cheika still gets final say in selections but an interim step because you can't afford to fire him right now seems to be to put a couple more trusted people in the circle to try and have a bit of positive influence.

Hiring a new head coach and giving them the right to hire assistants now would be unbelievably expensive for RA. I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth the potential return (which would be minimal).

There is limited time to prepare next year and little chance to substantially change the players involved even if you thought those changes were required.

The only issue with all this is that we literally did it last time and it worked wonderfully.

 

[RugbyReg]

Add big Jim Williams to the ticket as well.

why Jim? Is he even coaching at the moment?

 

[Braveheart81]

The only issue with all this is that we literally did it last time and it worked wonderfully.

Cheika was a very obvious replacement though and the assistants were all working with the players already.

It also didn't come with a huge financial cost.

 

[dru]

My option for next year would be to fire Simon Raiwalui and Nathan Grey and think pretty heavily about firing Larkham.

Keep Cheika for the RWC because it's too late and too expensive to change that. There isn't the time to properly hire a new head coach who will certainly be offered at least 2 years and probably longer. I'd expect most would want three years, two of which must be with all their own assistants.

Bring in a couple of "mentors" to oversee a reasonable amount of training and be part of squad and team selections. I think Cheika still gets final say in selections but an interim step because you can't afford to fire him right now seems to be to put a couple more trusted people in the circle to try and have a bit of positive influence.

Hiring a new head coach and giving them the right to hire assistants now would be unbelievably expensive for RA. I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth the potential return (which would be minimal).

There is limited time to prepare next year and little chance to substantially change the players involved even if you thought those changes were required.

Completely concur.

Let me add that the signs were there imo to properly consider options well before these constraints were upon us. RA should make sure they act with more alacrity in future.

 

[Derpus]

Cheika was a very obvious replacement though and the assistants were all working with the players already.

It also didn't come with a huge financial cost.

Yeah. I pretty much agree, but i can't see us pulling it out of the hat like we did last time with Cheika still at the helm.

 

[Braveheart81]

Completely concur.

Let me add that the signs were there imo to properly consider options well before these constraints were upon us. RA should make sure they act with more alacrity in future.

Whilst it might have given a better chance for someone succeeding Cheika to have a better crack at the RWC it would have cost more.

I also don't think there really was a reasonable case for sacking Cheika earlier. Sure there were people calling for it, but it was very marginal. RA is certainly not in a position to be firing coaches in marginal situations.

 

[Bobby Sands]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...k=ffb7ecb884011835139e49589df6bc7b-1543216089

Listen to Knuckles, and tell me he isn't the man to take a short-term contract as Wallabies coach.

Very practical, yet observant analysis.

Some notes:

-Samu too slow for 13, but good at 12
-Folau preferred on the wing or at 13 because it is too easy to pin him into the corners
-DHP 15
-Pocock needs to play 7, Hooper plays like a 6.
-Do we play Hooper at 6? and find a lineout, balling running 8 (he didn't mention by that would be Naisarani)
-Dempsey and Hanigan along way to go
-Hooker is a glaring weakness - whole game unravels without a solid set-piece
-Props the best they have been in a while
-We require centralized governance for Australian rugby
-Where the hell are all the 10s?
-The next long-term coach will come from overseas

 

[hammertimethere]

I reckon knuckles was completely correct on all those points with the possible exception of the first one. Kerevi is not obviously slower than many of the good 13's going around (Crotty, Goodhue, Moroni, de la Fuente, Bastareud, Davies, Henshaw, Tuilagi and Teo etc.). The genuinely fast (comparatively) international 13's aren't that common (Ringrose, Slade, Daly when he plays there, Fickou, Lienert-Brown etc.). It's about the skill set as a whole and where best you want to deploy his (or any player's) strengths in the context of your game plan. Kerevi's defence is improving all the time and his power running is extremely effective in the wide channels (though the thing where he stands on the wing from turnovers baffles me). I'm not yet convinced he is consistently bringing the subtlety/triple threat game that would potentially make him a world class 12 (though I think he has this potential).

 

[dru]

Whilst it might have given a better chance for someone succeeding Cheika to have a better crack at the RWC it would have cost more.

I also don't think there really was a reasonable case for sacking Cheika earlier. Sure there were people calling for it, but it was very marginal. RA is certainly not in a position to be firing coaches in marginal situations.

BH I’m going to stop using “imo” in this discussion as it doesn’t seem important to others.

The cost earlier was more expensive than now? Show me how that works. Doesn’t make sense.
It hasn’t been marginal for at least 12 months.

The major problem here is not HC but RA. All roads lead to Rome.

 

[KOB1987]

BH I’m going to stop using “imo” in this discussion as it doesn’t seem important to others.

The cost earlier was more expensive than now? Show me how that works. Doesn’t make sense.
It hasn’t been marginal for at least 12 months.

The major problem here is not HC but RA. All roads lead to Rome.

I wouldn't say that, as BH says people were calling for it but it was still marginal. We went within a 50/50 referee call of a series win against Ireland less than 6 months ago and up until then we had some ups and downs, we beat the all blacks 4 games earlier.

It started going really pear in the RC.

Agree with your last point - Cheika is locked in until the end of the RWC campaign and I think it's best just to let it play out, for better or for worse.