• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Wallabies 2023

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
Which part?

The big 4 professional service firms all had retirement ages for partners (mid 50's) which in recent years has been shelved due to age discrimination cases being brought in. I can personally attest I had a partner crack the shits with this rule, move to one of the 'mid-tiers' and continue doing the same work across the road.

Inversely, I had a partner who was retiring and the two years leading up to it, he fully checked out and was doing everything in his power to do the bare minimum to ensure he met budget to get his slice of the EOY profits.
Prior to my leaving, the chances of a 60 year old getting a senior management job in IT was hens teeth. In the consulting world, they mostly brought in youngsters and trained them, the exception was sales guys who they would occasionally take from large IT companies.
So you are saying a guy over 60 could pick up a job in a professional services company, assuming they were qualified? by application as opposed to headhunting, contacts etc.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Phil, I agree you can't judge a player from 5 years ago to what they are like now. Look at the talent we have lost overseas and we can't afford it as NZ can.
I was just using gamble as an example of how strong the Crusaders are/were/always have been.
Drew, it's a predictable reply but would you not take Deans record today?
Possibly, but he may have had better players to work with?
All I’m saying is that in my opinion a coach who makes more with less would be a better fit for the Wallabies (which is where we are at) than a coach who can pick the best of the best. Who that is? I’m not sure. But being a successful Crusaders coach doesn’t automatically make a successful Wallabies coach.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
I think Rennie has made some key mistakes which means he should not be retained.

But if you think hiring a succesful Crusaders coach is going to result in anything but very minor improvements then we've been there, done that.

Dude will be going from a perfect rugby machine to a systemically broken and failing sporting union.
Great Expectations? or are we only capable of attracting a coach with a death wish?
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
I was just using gamble as an example of how strong the Crusaders are/were/always have been.

Possibly, but he may have had better players to work with?
All I’m saying is that in my opinion a coach who makes more with less would be a better fit for the Wallabies (which is where we are at) than a coach who can pick the best of the best. Who that is? I’m not sure. But being a successful Crusaders coach doesn’t automatically make a successful Wallabies coach.
Drew, I am happy to be proven wrong but my recollection of those days was that Connolly got the role on a one-year contract as they were planning on a new coach. Eddie left us with almost zero youngsters playing for us and Deans had to rebuild from the ground up and win as much as possible on the way. Sounds a bit like the situation Rennie found himself in.
Would you have enjoyed coaching the 3 amigos? It was like trying to herd chickens with a cat.

What you are saying strikes me that we could do much worse than giving the job to Coleman.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
In almost the last 20 years we have not had a win rate above 50%, we have to do something, Eddie Jones had a 58% win record when he last coached us. What I am saying is that there are no easy answers and a conservative coach like Jones ain't gonna make it here due to all the player issues we have discussed. He moved into the England job after a major rebuild and worked it well until it was time to rebuild but that ain't what he does. So what makes any of you think he will come here and rebuild a winning team?
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Drew, I am happy to be proven wrong but my recollection of those days was that Connolly got the role on a one-year contract as they were planning on a new coach. Eddie left us with almost zero youngsters playing for us and Deans had to rebuild from the ground up and win as much as possible on the way. Sounds a bit like the situation Rennie found himself in.
Would you have enjoyed coaching the 3 amigos? It was like trying to herd chickens with a cat.
I was hoping Rennie was going to be the guy I described, making the most with what we have. It hasn’t worked that way unfortunately. Like you, my memory from then is a tad hazy. My memory of Eddie matches yours, I also remember Deans did well rebuilding our depth. He just lost me with JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 v Lions. He probably wouldn’t have dealt with the egos like the amigos at the crusaders either. Funny that Rennie is an injury or two away from a reunion of the amigos viejos. Shows how far (or not) we have travelled since then.
 

rodha

Dave Cowper (27)
I was just using gamble as an example of how strong the Crusaders are/were/always have been.

Possibly, but he may have had better players to work with?
All I’m saying is that in my opinion a coach who makes more with less would be a better fit for the Wallabies (which is where we are at) than a coach who can pick the best of the best. Who that is? I’m not sure. But being a successful Crusaders coach doesn’t automatically make a successful Wallabies coach.

Crusaders haven't necessarily had the best players during Razor's time, they are just a lot greater than the sum of their parts.

The only certain starting All Blacks at the moment are Whitelock and Mo'unga.

It's Blues and Chiefs that make up much of their best XV these days.
 
Last edited:

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
.
So you are saying a guy over 60 could pick up a job in a professional services company, assuming they were qualified? by application as opposed to headhunting, contacts etc.
At a professional services firm? No. But, no 60 year old wants to apply to a professional services firm as a shit kicker senior consultant for $70-99k a year.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Crusaders haven't necessarily had the best players during Razor's time, they are just a lot greater than the sum of their parts.

The only certain starting All Blacks at the moment are Whitelock and Mo'unga.

It's Blues and Chiefs that make up much of their best XV these days.
You’re probably right. Reece and Jordan are close to (if not actual) starters and Scobar, Moody, Taylor, Goodhue and Havili have been picked a fair bit also (and last year they had Matera). But I do get what you’re saying. They have a system, as well as high standards where everyone knows their role. Could Razor bring that system and those standards here? You’d hope so for what we’d have to pay him. I’d prefer Razor to Eddie personally, but doubt he’ll come.
 

Marce

John Thornett (49)
Agreed. The Crusaders didn’t want Charlie Gamble at some stage, and we are desperate to get him into the fold here. The Crusaders have an assembly line of talent. It’s a bit different here. I’m not sure he’d work either.
Tahs didn't want Nadolo and then he became a star in Saders

Angus Ta'avao was nobody in Tahs, then he crossed the pond and now he's an AB

Pete Samu was a star in Saders and he never could earn a starter spot in Wallabies...
 

rodha

Dave Cowper (27)
Would McKellar work beneath Razor? I highly doubt he would've committed to the Wallabies full-time if there wasn't some kind of incentive or soft guarantee he'll get promoted to head coach later down the track. He had a nice gig at the Brumbies, it wouldn't of been easy for him to give that up and risk jeopardizing his reputation alongside a struggling Wallabies coaching ticket under Rennie.

So it begs the question - should Razor land the head coaching job would McKellar be likely to leave the Wallabies or stay on? McKellar probably has strong aspirations to become Wallabies coach in 2024, and he & Razor are both equally ambitious (and both exhibit forceful and intense personalities). Two assertive strong-willed alpha males in the room is a risk, my feeling is that it wouldn't happen.

I'm not convinced that McKellar would be content to be Robertson's subordinate, especially with having committed full-time now.
 
Last edited:

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
Not sure what “almost the last 20 years” means but over the last 19 years we have won over 50% of our games.
This is what 'almost the last 20 years' means. RR
1673346891207.png
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
Tahs didn't want Nadolo and then he became a star in Saders

Angus Ta'avao was nobody in Tahs, then he crossed the pond and now he's an AB

Pete Samu was a star in Saders and he never could earn a starter spot in Wallabies...
I think this points to what a few of us have been saying here, we struggle to pick our noses!
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Tahs didn't want Nadolo and then he became a star in Saders

Angus Ta'avao was nobody in Tahs, then he crossed the pond and now he's an AB

Pete Samu was a star in Saders and he never could earn a starter spot in Wallabies...
First two were expected to work at a higher standard at the Crusaders than at the Waratahs and showed what they could be. Samu in the other hand was far too good for Shute Shield, but was playing at 12 when I saw him at Randwick and was becoming a star in NZ after shifting to 6 and proving himself in the NPC before being enticed back here. but that wasn’t Razor himself who did that, that was the Crusaders system’s and standards. I’d love him to transplant some of that Saders magic over here, but he’s just a part of their success.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
Tahs didn't want Nadolo and then he became a star in Saders

Angus Ta'avao was nobody in Tahs, then he crossed the pond and now he's an AB

Pete Samu was a star in Saders and he never could earn a starter spot in Wallabies...
Bit of revisionist history Marce.
1. Nadolo spent time in five professional programs prior to the Crusaders. It wasn't a Tahs issue it was a Nadolo issue.
2. Ta'avao joined the Tahs after being sacked by the Blues where he played 50 odd super games. FYI he played half that at the Tahs
3. Samu. A star. Get off it. He played 30 odd games mostly from the bench.

What else you got?
 
Top