Wallabies 2023

[Marce]

Bit of revisionist history Marce.
1. Nadolo spent time in five professional programs prior to the Crusaders. It wasn't a Tahs issue it was a Nadolo issue.
2. Ta'avao joined the Tahs after being sacked by the Blues where he played 50 odd super games. FYI he played half that at the Tahs
3. Samu. A star. Get off it. He played 30 odd games mostly from the bench.

What else you got?

1- Nadolo proved that all 5 programs were wrong
2- Taavao played 25 games for Tahs and noboby liked him
3- Samu was a star at Super Rugby level. At least a very important player. It was a HUGE news when he choiced to play for Australia and he was consistenly selected as a 23 squad player
4- Henry Speight was belittled in Waikato then they tried to bring his back (DR) but it was too late and Henry chose the place where he felt important
5- Charlie Gamble wasn't selected to the U20s Crusaders program. He traveled to Sydney and made every step from the rock bottom to the professional level and then got a call to the Wallabies . Well done, Charlie 'Rocky Balboa'

 

[Doritos Day]

Would McKellar work beneath Razor? I highly doubt he would've committed to the Wallabies full-time if there wasn't some kind of incentive or soft guarantee he'll get promoted to head coach later down the track.

There is zero chance this has happened, R.A. have awful governance but this would be next level horrendous.

 

[stillmissit]

The thing is, the Kiwis aren't perfect. They released Henry Speight and Charlie Gamble

The impact on them is nothing like the impact on us. It was many years ago I played in NZ but at that time there were plenty of people who, with the game in mind would suggest youngsters to keep an eye on. During my playing time here I never heard of a knowledgeable supporter suggesting young players to watch.

 

[stillmissit]

almost 20 years is 1962 to now?

Pretty poor response to your claim of over 50% in the last 19 years. I thought you would come back by going to 2 decimal points or putting a weighing on draws!

 

[stillmissit]

1- Nadolo proved that all 5 programs were wrong
2- Taavao played 25 games for Tahs and noboby liked him
3- Samu was a star at Super Rugby level. At least a very important player. It was a HUGE news when he choiced to play for Australia and he was consistenly selected as a 23 squad player
4- Henry Speight was belittled in Waikato then they tried to bring his back (DR) but it was too late and Henry choiced the place where he felt important
5- Charlie Gamble wasn't selected to the U20s Crusaders program. He traveled to Sydney and made every step from the rock bottom to the professional level and then got a call to the Wallabies . Well done, Charlie 'Rocky Balboa'

Hi Marce, I don't wish to belittle your writing but is this some young persons new method of expression? "Henry choiced"

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Would McKellar work beneath Razor?

Has been for years really.

 

[Marce]

Hi Marce, I don't wish to belittle your writing but is this some young persons new method of expression? "Henry choiced"

That was because I wrote 'picked' and then changed the expression lol My fault

English is not my mother tongue but I think my English level is pretty good. I didn't have problems living in Australia and here not many complain about it. In fact, you are the first one. Congrats! Lol

 

[Braveheart81]

1- Nadolo proved that all 5 programs were wrong
2- Taavao played 25 games for Tahs and noboby liked him

Nadolo eventually became an excellent player but it wasn't like he jumped around those clubs seeking an opportunity to prove how good he was. It took until he was just about on his last chance for him to grow up and apply himself. Maybe the Crusaders had the culture and structure that really helped him take that step in his own personal development but the suggestion that it was purely a failure by all his previous clubs is revisionist.

Ta'avao was pretty poor in his two seasons in Australia and it was interrupted by breaking his leg part way through that stint. So a bunch of those games were on the comeback from a serious injury. It also seemed to be a motivation issue for him. He left the Waratahs at the end of 2017 and returned to New Zealand without a contract. He played well in the Mitre 10 Cup to eventually get picked up by the Chiefs in 2018. He was essentially playing for his professional career and ultimately it seems that motivated him to actually work hard for it.

Sometimes it comes down to the player.

 

[John S]

This is what 'almost the last 20 years' means. RR
View attachment 15126

So that looks like => 50% under Jones, Connolly, Dean's, McKenzie, Cheika. And they coached in the last 20 years.

Or are you adding up all the games and doing a cumulative win %?

 

[stillmissit]

So that looks like => 50% under Jones, Connolly, Dean's, McKenzie, Cheika. And they coached in the last 20 years.

Or are you adding up all the games and doing a cumulative win %?

John, I just added all the wins inc 2003 to end of 2022 ie 20 years and the win % is 53.8% so Rugby Reg can crow that it was over 50% by 3.8% nothing too special.
Best years appear to be Jones 2004 75%, Connoly 2007 75%, Deans 2011 69%, Cheika 2015 83%,
The surprise to me was how good Connolly's time was and he only lost to England in the RWC qtr final by 2 points.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

And that QF Morts had a kick at full time to win it but unfortunately missed. Our scrum was horrible in that game though.

 

[Wallaby Man]

John, I just added all the wins inc 2003 to end of 2022 ie 20 years and the win % is 53.8% so Rugby Reg can crow that it was over 50% by 3.8% nothing too special.
Best years appear to be Jones 2004 75%, Connoly 2007 75%, Deans 2011 69%, Cheika 2015 83%,
The surprise to me was how good Connolly's time was and he only lost to England in the RWC qtr final by 2 points.

Other than Jones 2004, the others fell on the RWC years where there is several gimmies, especially 2007 and 2011 which is before some of the T2 started to professionalize. Cheika in 2019 had Samoa (warm up), Fiji, Uruguay, Georgia in his fixtures that year.

 

[stillmissit]

And that QF Morts had a kick at full time to win it but unfortunately missed. Our scrum was horrible in that game though.

Just watched the game again after 15 years and not a bad game, Wilkinson missed an easier one than the one Morts missed from 50 out. We gave away lots of penalties (nothing changes) and the scrum was woeful with Dunning and Baxter. Lot's of decent D and a very tight game.

 

[RugbyReg]

John, I just added all the wins inc 2003 to end of 2022 ie 20 years and the win % is 53.8% so Rugby Reg can crow that it was over 50% by 3.8% nothing too special.
Best years appear to be Jones 2004 75%, Connoly 2007 75%, Deans 2011 69%, Cheika 2015 83%,
The surprise to me was how good Connolly's time was and he only lost to England in the RWC qtr final by 2 points.

wasn't crowing. Just trying to work out your stats that for almost 20 years we had a less than 50% win rate.

Worth noting the RWC year results (2007, 2011, 2015) are somewhat inflated by a shorted Rugby Champs (so playing NZL and SAF less often and even then often with those teams resting key players) and by playing tier 2 and 3 nations in the RWC pool games and then the finals being elimination. So Knuckles only lost one game at the 2007 RWC as did Chieka in 2015. It just so happened to be the first final for Knuckles and the last for Chek.

 

[Knuckles]

I don’t consider the average age an issue.

2027 isn’t the focus for the 2023 RWC

and that's the problem with Australian Rugby. Whilst 2023 is and should be the current focus, we should also have attention to 2027...especially seeing we'll be hosting it!

 

[Doritos Day]

and that's the problem with Australian Rugby. Whilst 2023 is and should be the current focus, we should also have attention to 2027...especially seeing we'll be hosting it!

Australian rugby doesn't have the luxury of looking that far forward.

The Wallabies brand needs to be associated with winning, especially at home. You can tinker around the edges like vs. Italy at 2am without much damage but there's no way the team can be sacrificing current performance for a tournament in 4 years time.

 

[rodha]

The surprise to me was how good Connolly's time was and he only lost to England in the RWC qtr final by 2 points.

Two words - John Muggleton. The Wallabies decline started when he left after 2007. Look at Australia's results during the Connelly tenure, barely any blowouts, mostly pretty tight low-scoring margins even when losing, that's what effect a former rugby league clinical defense coach has for ya.

 

[Derpus]

Two words - John Muggleton. The Wallabies decline started when he left after 2007. Look at Australia's results during the Connelly tenure, barely any blowouts, mostly pretty tight low-scoring margins even when losing, that's what effect a former rugby league clinical defense coach has for ya.

You are very quick to attribute the Wallabies fortunes to a handful of individuals.

Seems unlikely to be honest. Whatever we have achieved over the last 20 odd years has been against the tide of poor administrative decisions and has always been fairly fleeting.

Having said that I think a 50% win rate is pretty respectable and seems achievable even with our systemic flaws - part of why Rennie needs to go.

 

[gel]

Is there some benefit to be gained in playing home series against other teams such as Japan, Samoa, Fiji and italy? We are forced to play NZ, south Africa and the home nations every year, and in the current times I feel we are learning how to lose and/or maintain any consistency. There is obviously confidence to be gained in winning tight ones against the top tier, but is there not also confidence to be gained in maintaining shape *if* we manage to get a run on another team? Would this team recognise winning positions given they are are travelling so poorly?

Additionally, these mid year series could be taken to Canberra, Townsville etc leading up to the next rwc. Particularly given these centres will be hosting rugby during 2027, so why not now to raise that awareness with the best we have now (arguably Canberra are given that already with the Brumbies)?

The traditional grounds like Lang park, new amazing sfs, Perth stadium etc still get the new Zealand and South African games. Even other regional towns like Adelaide and Melbourne get the top tier matches already.

Downside is obviously the lower revenue, but longer term surely generating a winning record is easier to market than a constant set of losses.

I understand that each country jas a different local market that they cater to, and there is probably a very sizable expat community here for every other major rugby nation - which guarantees a signficant proportion that is going to buy big game tickets - so easy dollars... However I don't think I see other major football unions so readily promoting other country's play on their own youtube channel the way that rugbyau does. Kudos to rugby au for knowing their audience, coz who doesn't like watching a kiwi prop embarass the western force, or recalling that time that Akira Iaone played sevens, or even that marvelous Mo'unga magic against the wallabies? The other country's football unions' socials tend to be quite insular by comparison and i woudl guess that is driven by their marketing statistics.

https://www.youtube.com/@rugbycomau/shorts

getting back to a winning percentage shoudl surely shift that market more in favour of some locals?

 

[PhilClinton]

Conceptually agree with you gel.

Although I’m skeptical that RA would take the plunge and host a Wallabies v Italy game in Townsville for example.

Talking specifically in QLD, the catch-22 is there are large supporter groups for Samoa, Tonga and Fiji in Brisbane. But I’m still not sure it’s economically viable to host those games at Suncorp regularly as they’d barely sniff a full house.