Wallabies 2023

[qwerty51]

Eddie's history is such that we don't need to! the evidence is plain to see, bloke is a nightmare to work with.

Some have said that, some haven't. Just like some players have said he's an awful coach who they hated and others have said he's the best coach they've had.

Look I'm not an Eddie fan at all, but it's a bit tiresome going on this constant tirade against him before he's really even started here. Maybe wait until we lose a few Tests first.

 

[Derpus]

I wonder if McLennan had turned his mind to who would comprise the wider coaching squad before dismantling what was left of our current one.

 

[stillmissit]

I don’t mind a theory, but let’s not go down the path of unsubstantiated claims

Isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[stillmissit]

I wonder if McLennan had turned his mind to who would comprise the wider coaching squad before dismantling what was left of our current one.

I wonder if McLennan has ever turned his mind?

 

[LeCheese]

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Theories are (should be) supported by well substantiated evidence

 

[fatprop]

Some have said that, some haven't. Just like some players have said he's an awful coach who they hated and others have said he's the best coach they've had.

Look I'm not an Eddie fan at all, but it's a bit tiresome going on this constant tirade against him before he's really even started here. Maybe wait until we lose a few Tests first.

James Haskell has said repeatedly, best coach and hardest with the highest expectations

The Stan coaching interview he did with Phil Gould was very good - worth a listen

Some interesting insights

 

[rodha]

Theories are (should be) supported by well substantiated evidence

ok then, surely you blokes remember that article nick bishop wrote about his first-hand (albeit brief) experience working with Eddie?

while it certainly portrayed Jones as a hard taskmaster (that is already well documented) more alarmingly it painted him as a - slightly more than above acceptable workplace bully lol..

prior to this nick bishop had worked as an analyst under Henry 1999-2002, Ruddock 2004-2006, Lancaster 2012-2015, so he'd certainly been around enough different environments to be able to identify a toxic one and that was clear under Eddie's totalitarian English regime bhahahaha!

 

[Tomikin]

ok then, surely you blokes remember that article nick bishop wrote about his first-hand (albeit brief) experience working with Eddie?

while it certainly portrayed Jones as a hard taskmaster (which is already well documented) more alarmingly it painted him as a - slightly more than above acceptable workplace bully lol.

prior to this nick bishop had worked as an analyst under Henry 1999-2002, Ruddock 2004-2006, Lancaster 2012-2015, so he'd certainly been around enough different environments to be able to identify a toxic one and that was clear under Eddie's totalitarian English regime bhahahaha!

Here you go, go there and have at it.

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[fatprop]

ok then, surely you blokes remember that article nick bishop wrote about his first-hand (albeit brief) experience working with Eddie?

while it certainly portrayed Jones as a hard taskmaster (which is already well documented) more alarmingly it painted him as a - slightly more than above acceptable workplace bully lol.

prior to this nick bishop had worked as an analyst under Henry 1999-2002, Ruddock 2004-2006, Lancaster 2012-2015, so he'd certainly been around enough different environments to be able to identify a toxic one and that was clear under Eddie's totalitarian English regime bhahahaha!

one man's "toxic environment" is another man's not tolerating mediocrity and having high expectations

but again I ask, did Eddie hurt you?

 

[qwerty51]

one man's "toxic environment" is another man's not tolerating mediocrity and having high expectations

but again I ask, did Eddie hurt you?

Exactly why he's so controversial, if some players weren't up to it they probably aren't used to being called out like he does. Does that make it right? Probably not and I do worry about how Eddie handles the new Gen Z of players because there's undoubtedly a difference in attitudes and responding to criticism between generations and the best coaches will be those that man manage the best. But he can evovle.

 

[Adam84]

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Nah.
Stating some as fact and claiming it to be true is different to posing a theory.

 

[stillmissit]

Theories are (should be) supported by well substantiated evidence

There are many theories, scientific and otherwise with nothing substantiated these days based on nothing but ideology yet they are claimed to be theories, which used to be proposed to be mainly disproven and rarely proven.

 

[Braveheart81]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie Jones is very much in that Michael Cheika vein where it is unlikely they can succeed as a coach somewhere over a very long period of time. Their methods can and do bring success but it is also likely to fall apart if you let it run for too long.

I am guessing RA thinks (or hopes) that they can hit that sweet spot before things go south with Jones by getting a boost heading to the 2023 RWC but it not being too long when 2027 rolls around which has to be the main game.

 

[Jimmyjam]

Sadly many people these days equate accountability/expectation to bullying. If you've watched the Michael Jordan documentary "The Last Dance" you could probably draw parallels between MJ's expectations with Eddies coaching style

 

[Tomikin]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie Jones is very much in that Michael Cheika vein where it is unlikely they can succeed as a coach somewhere over a very long period of time. Their methods can and do bring success but it is also likely to fall apart if you let it run for too long.

I am guessing Rugby Australia thinks (or hopes) that they can hit that sweet spot before things go south with Jones by getting a boost heading to the 2023 RWC but it not being too long when 2027 rolls around which has to be the main game.

Although till last year eddie was pretty successful in England wasn't he.. pretty much 6 years or at least 5 that's a long time

 

[Derpus]

I wonder if McLennan has ever turned his mind?

What?

 

[qwerty51]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie Jones is very much in that Michael Cheika vein where it is unlikely they can succeed as a coach somewhere over a very long period of time. Their methods can and do bring success but it is also likely to fall apart if you let it run for too long.

I am guessing Rugby Australia thinks (or hopes) that they can hit that sweet spot before things go south with Jones by getting a boost heading to the 2023 RWC but it not being too long when 2027 rolls around which has to be the main game.

Surely. And part of that would be him moving into a more hands off role as a director or HP role where he can overlook the pathways and go between u20s, Wallaroos and Super clubs.

 

[Derpus]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie Jones is very much in that Michael Cheika vein where it is unlikely they can succeed as a coach somewhere over a very long period of time. Their methods can and do bring success but it is also likely to fall apart if you let it run for too long.

I am guessing Rugby Australia thinks (or hopes) that they can hit that sweet spot before things go south with Jones by getting a boost heading to the 2023 RWC but it not being too long when 2027 rolls around which has to be the main game.

Are there many (any) examples of coaches have sustained success for longer than four years? Maybe some of the Crusaders coaches at provincial level.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sadly many people these days equate accountability/expectation to bullying. If you've watched the Michael Jordan documentary "The Last Dance" you could probably draw parallels between MJ's expectations with Eddies coaching style

Or was it more a case that people commonly enforced accountability/expectation with a fair degree of bullying and largely the acceptance of that (or no longer accepting it) is what has changed?

It's absolutely true that over time the way to get the best out of people has changed because society has changed.

 

[qwerty51]

Are there many (any) examples of coaches have sustained success for longer than four years? Maybe some of the Crusaders coaches at provincial level.

Robertson has 6 titles in a row. Gatland was pretty successful with Wales for just over a decade. Hansen 2012-2019 - probably the last year was his worst.