Wallabies 2023

[Braveheart81]

I don't think it's ever a likely scenario. RA has enough trouble hanging on to the talent they want without imposing further restrictions on retention by saying to someone we'll pay you, but only if you play here.

The power is very much in the hands of the top players and that's not going to change.

 

[dru]

I don't think it's ever a likely scenario. RA has enough trouble hanging on to the talent they want without imposing further restrictions on retention by saying to someone we'll pay you, but only if you play here.

The power is very much in the hands of the top players and that's not going to change.

BH, (and cheese), a mandate would obviously create far more mayhem than any good. Also yes, you have to use the top up intelligently where the opportunity arises - likely frequently in Brisbane and Sydney.

that doesn’t change a natural lack of equity in terms of a level playing field, nor a simple view to longer term intentions.

There could be other things to help flatten the difference, though also with issues - eg you could adjust the permissible cap to level it out. Albeit few clubs might take it up.

 

[RugbyReg]

The RA top up is about ensuring we have the right players in the right positions available for the Wallabies. Not ensuring each team has the same amount of RA money.

If the Force want more top up, go get Ollie Hoskings back. We need a back up 3 and I reckon he could come with some RA Top Up.

We're losing locks in Frost and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), go get Hockings (or any other number of them) back and that'll come with a RA top up too.

The other way to look at it is what RA top up players are on the bench of other teams and not getting constant minutes. That's where the real disparity comes from.

The Brumby hookers are the obvious one. Don't know about the likes of Joe Powell, Liam Wright, Filipo Daugunu.

Perhaps the RA should adding a little sting to their next contract saying, look if you want the same amount you need to head west, or we'll offer you a $15k signing bonus/relocation fee to move to the Force

 

[chiraag]

There could be other things to help flatten the difference, though also with issues - eg you could adjust the permissible cap to level it out. Albeit few clubs might take it up.

Something like this would make a lot of sense and help even the playing field. For example, if the Tahs were the team receiving the highest total wallaby top-ups for a year, there could be something like:
Force Salary Cap = Base salary cap + 50% x (Waratahs total top ups minus tops ups being received by the Force)

Perhaps the RA should adding a little sting to their next contract saying, look if you want the same amount you need to head west, or we'll offer you a $15k signing bonus/relocation fee to move to the Force

Also a decent idea. Could be in the form of relocation incentives for the 2 bottom placing Australian teams each year, or using an average of the last few years since contracts are typically sorted out in the middle of a season.

A draft system similar to the AFL would also be another way to help even out the competition. A lot more difficult in rugby since you can't have a defined trade period with there being an overseas market also.

 

[kiap]

If the Force want more top up, go get Ollie Hoskings back. We need a back up 3 and I reckon he could come with some RA Top Up.

We're losing locks in Frost and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), go get Hockings (or any other number of them) back and that'll come with a RA top up too.

Yeah, all those guys are the sort of players RA should be trying to retain domestically, for the sake of maintaining a professional tier.

To your opening comment about the purpose of the RA top up, though, the payments -- by necessity -- have to tail off below the top 15 or so players for the scheme to even work. There won't be too much top-up left for most of the names you mentioned (although maybe Frost might merit some sort of "rugby foundation" incentive to stay in Canberra ... dunno).

That's where Steve's suggestion below would come in.

All clubs have the same salary cap, Wallaby top-ups are outside the caps. I'd be more than happy to see a scheme that included Wallaby top-ups in the cap or allowed teams that haven't benefited from the RA largesse to spend a similar amount on their salaries in order to attract or retain good players.

Do we want this tier of pro player in our own comp or not?

For my own view, I still think Super Rugby is ultimately flawed. With no changes (or if the NZ teams don't put away the bat in the back end of the season) this new soup won't last long.

 

[eastman]

It could certainly be very little or non-existent.

Almost all re-signings now where a player is remotely on the Wallaby radar feature a RA press release. RA is a contracting party to every Wallaby eligible player I believe.

For a player like Foketi let's hope it's a token amount at best and mainly used as a signal/carrot that he is on the radar for the Wallabies.

Like others have said, I don't think he's a good enough to consistently be in the Wallabies 23 squad (although inside centre is a position of relative weakness among the Aussie Super Rugby franchises).

Maybe Rugby Australia are just doing the Waratahs a favour?

 

[Rob42]

For Force fans, it seems you've done the most important things towards making your team an attractive destination for talented young players - establish a good culture, and recruit a coach who will make young players better.

You don't want players who choose to go to Perth for a few extra dollars, you want the players who are determined to become the best they can be. Good talent has even been prepared to live in Canberra for that reason, for heaven's sake.

 

[LeCheese]

For Force fans, it seems you've done the most important things towards making your team an attractive destination for talented young players - establish a good culture, and recruit a coach who will make young players better.

You don't want players who choose to go to Perth for a few extra dollars, you want the players who are determined to become the best they can be. Good talent has even been prepared to live in Canberra for that reason, for heaven's sake.

The desires and motivations of a player is a point that I think is often overlooked in these discussions, when it's probably the most prohibitive factor. For examples of terrible outcomes for teams and individuals as a result of players being moved around against their will, the NBA have experienced it with countless trades.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

As an outsider of Australian rugby, and somebody who has been watching this Super Rugby season, I’ve been impressed with the standard of the Aussie sides so far. However, I know very little about Australian Rugby and I’m sure they’ll find it difficult against the Kiwi sides.

If I had to pick a Wallabies XV based on first 6 rounds of Super Rugby and only from Australia teams, I’d go with:
1. Angus Bell
2. Folau Fainga’a
3. Taniela Tupou
4. Jed Holloway
5. Matt Phillip
6. Rob Valetini
7. Fraser McReight
8. Pete Samu
9. Nic White
10. James O’Connor
11. Andy Muir
12. Izaia Perese
13. Len Ikitau
14. Tom Banks
15. Jordan Petaia

You guys are pretty stacked in the centres and the front row. Great talent to return from overseas too! You could be a force come the WC next year.

I’m excited to see Michael Hooper back this weekend. One of my favourite players.

There was literally a whole conversation above on how the Force get overlooked and then you leave out Rodda who has been one of the standout players in the comp just to rub salt in to the wounds

 

[Derpus]

I have heard Simone is off to Clermont. Now there is a player who should have been given a top up ahead of Foketi (and more chances in gold).

 

[qwerty51]

What on earth makes you think Foketi has a top up?

 

[Adam84]

RA announced it as such

 

[fatprop]

RA announced it as such

I can't find an article stating a top up, source?

 

[Derpus]

Maybe we just assumed it was because the announcement said he'd signed with NSW and RA?

 

[Adam84]

I can't find an article stating a top up, source?

no article by RA has explicitly said there is a top-up for any of the recent wallabies re-signed.

When they say they’ve committed and re-signed with Rugby Australia it generally alludes to a top-up contract. Foketi was announced as a wallaby re-signing by RA, like other recent Wallaby re-signings in Slipper, Paisami, Swain, Kellaway who are undoubtedly on top-ups.

 

[Cancelled Account]

no article by RA has explicitly said there is a top-up for any of the recent wallabies re-signed.

When they say they’ve committed and re-signed with Rugby Australia it generally alludes to a top-up contract. Foketi was announced as a wallaby re-signing by RA, like other recent Wallaby re-signings in Slipper, Paisami, Swain, Kellaway who are undoubtedly on top-ups.

If RA is announcing it on their media profiles then you know there’s a contribution (top up). There are many players who are not in the Wallabies’ squad who are partially funded by RA, but you won’t see this on the media profiles.

 

[fatprop]

Thanks, if any, I can't imagine much

 

[qwerty51]

Re-signing with RA doesn't explicitly mean he's on a top-up?

I can't imagine so, if you're giving a top-up to centres it would be Perese and Ikitau firstly and still I'd only give one to 1x centre (probably Ikitau).

edit: I also forgot Paisami who'd definitely be in line for a top up before Foketi too. No way are giving 4 top-ups to centres especially when Kerevi is available.

How many players are we giving top-ups to? I thought it was 10-15 max.

 

[Tomikin]

Re-signing with RA doesn't explicitly mean he's on a top-up?

I can't imagine so, if you're giving a top-up to centres it would be Perese and Ikitau firstly and still I'd only give one to 1x centre (probably Ikitau).

Yeah it's more likely his been a recent Wallaby squad member and signed up again to ra and NSW.. people have got there panties in a twist over nothing.. just some PR

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah it's more likely his been a recent Wallaby squad member and signed up again to ra and NSW.. people have got there panties in a twist over nothing.. just some PR

I imagine obviously different level of top ups and really without the detail debating whether worthy of a top up becomes a bit mute..I mean a 50k top up vs a 250k top up…makes a difference to the conversation