Wallabies 2023

[rugbyAU]

Also if people think this squad is an eye to the future, would he select all of White, Slipper, Porecki, Arnold and make Skelton captain?

None of them will be at 2027 and probably none in 2025.

Yeah you need to have some experienced guys to help out (mentor) the youth

 

[Bullrush]

I think the value of the "experience" and "mentoring" qualities associated with 30-somethings that have played >60 tests yet have barely participated in the winning of a meat tray is vastly overstated/overrated. What sort of mentoring or coaching is Cooper expected to provide Gordon exactly and when are people thinking he'll be providing it? Over dinner when they're all scrolling through instagram? When theyre in the gym and have the airpods in? Do people think Quade and Gordon will be sitting in a dark room after practice doing additional game film study and sharing 5/8 secrets? Is he expected to have some invaluable wisdom about how to get over the mental hump and perform with precision every time you step on the turf?

There were some who thought that that the ABs shouldn't have taken the whole squad to SA for the RC game this year. After the game, I was watching the Aotearoa Rugby Pod and James Parsons talked about the value of players just spending time together, in the hotel, at the airport etc talking rugby, talking about the game plans etc. He and Bryn Hall seemed to think that it is quite important.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Went out for a couple of hours and saw the squad when I got home. Bonkers. Absolutely bonkers.

 

[Goosestep]

Yeah you need to have some experienced guys to help out (mentor) the youth

Exactly, you think by now this would
Be common sense

 

[Linerunner2023]

Yeah because the older guys have really been putting on these other teams

Yes but they can at times mate
Suli looks completely out of his depth is test rugby
But does not get dropped?

 

[DropGoal]

Not happy with the front row … wish we could go back to the powerhouse glory days of Matt dunning and al Baxter

 

[KiwiM]

There were some who thought that that the ABs shouldn't have taken the whole squad to SA for the RC game this year. After the game, I was watching the Aotearoa Rugby Pod and James Parsons talked about the value of players just spending time together, in the hotel, at the airport etc talking rugby, talking about the game plans etc. He and Bryn Hall seemed to think that it is quite important.

That's true but that was more in relation to team bonding/position bonding and clarity than experience and mentoring.

Parsons is a good example actually - as a Blues fan I respect him as a person and a player to have such a long career (and he's good value as a podcaster) but as a captain or leader I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Blues and was pleased when he moved on. He was captain during a shit time in Blues rugby and frankly his 'experience' added fuck all. Sounds familiar....

 

[Bullrush]

Also if people think this squad is an eye to the future, would he select all of White, Slipper, Porecki, Arnold and make Skelton captain?

None of them will be at 2027 and probably none in 2025.

So unless he selects an entirely young and inexperienced squad - all 33 players have to be relatively new - then you can't think he isn't focused on the future?

 

[Linerunner2023]

The only thing 2024 has bought and will be remember so far for wallabies and Eddie jones is finishing the careers of hundreds of test caps
Sio, Neville, hooper, samu, Holloway, Cooper, foley, JOC (James O'Connor)
He has bought in a heap of youth, change and debutants
And atm we are still loosing / getting hammered
So yes change is great, if it works…

 

[Goosestep]

The only thing 2024 has bought and will be remember so far for wallabies and Eddie jones is finishing the careers of hundreds of test caps
Sio, Neville, hooper, samu, Holloway, Cooper, foley, JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor)
He has bought in a heap of youth, change and debutants
And atm we are still loosing / getting hammered
So yes change is great, if it works…

Mate we’ve been losing for years lol …

 

[Tomikin]

Ikitau & Ala'alatoa obviously would’ve been there if fit.

There is a case for Wright, Neville & Lonergan but none of those three could feel too hard done by.

You don't think Wright can feel hard done by Donaldson Suli and Jorgensen have been selected in front of him.. Jorgensen not even fit yet and hasn't played in months .

 

[Joe Blow]

Kellaway played a few games for Scots at 10 in 2013

Problem solved

 

[qwerty51]

So unless he selects an entirely young and inexperienced squad - all 33 players have to be relatively new - then you can't think he isn't focused on the future?

yeah that seems pretty reasonable analysis, or else he’s picked guys that are here to win

 

[Bullrush]

That's true but that was more in relation to team bonding/position bonding and clarity than experience and mentoring.

Parsons is a good example actually - as a Blues fan I respect him as a person and a player to have such a long career (and he's good value as a podcaster) but as a captain or leader I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Blues and was pleased when he moved on. He was captain during a shit time in Blues rugby and frankly his 'experience' added fuck all. Sounds familiar....

There are plenty of great rugby players whose teams weren't very successful. Jonah Lomu never won a RWC and he never scored a try against SA. You think his experience adds fuck all? Tana Umaga never won Super Rugby or a RWC. You think his experience adds fuck all?

I don't know if it's true but I read that Quade Cooper has won over 60% of games with the Wallabies - only Larkham and Lynagh have won more as the Wallaby 10. Given his story and how he has matured and grown over the years, you think his experience adds fuck all?

 

[TSR]

You don't think Wright can feel hard done by Donaldson Suli and Jorgensen have been selected in front of him.. Jorgensen not even fit yet and hasn't played in months .

Of course he could. And, for what it’s worth, I think he should have got a gig. But he did get first chance. He has had every opportunity to lock down a spot and he’s come up short as far as Jones is concerned.

 

[KiwiM]

There are plenty of great rugby players whose teams weren't very successful. Jonah Lomu never won a RWC and he never scored a try against SA. You think his experience adds fuck all? Tana Umaga never won Super Rugby or a RWC. You think his experience adds fuck all?

I don't know if it's true but I read that Quade Cooper has won over 60% of games with the Wallabies - only Larkham and Lynagh have won more as the Wallaby 10. Given his story and how he has matured and grown over the years, you think his experience adds fuck all?

I was specifically talking about Parsons as he was the captain and leader for an underachieving Blues team for years and years.

As for Quade in this particular situation I don't think his experience is particularly helpful. Gordon needs to grow and develop in his own space and not be looking over his shoulder with Quade in the wings wondering if he'll get hooked after every bad kick. It reminds me of the NFL and young QB - there comes a certain time where you need to move on from the veteran and unleash young player.

 

[Slim 293]

In another huge omission, star centre Ikitau has also been left out of the squad due to a shoulder injury, despite being only two to three weeks away from a return to the field.

Wallabies fans will be scratching their heads based on that logic, given Samu Kerevi (hand) and Jorgensen (knee) have both been picked despite nursing injuries.

“He was close,” Jones said. “We had to draw a line with who we took that was borderline fit. It just comes down to a judgment of what we think we can carry and what we think we can’t carry. We’ve decided that we wouldn’t take Lenny.

“He hasn’t had a lot of rugby recently for the last six or seven weeks but there’s no reason why, if he got fit, he couldn’t feature in the World Cup.”

Jorgensen, who injured his MCL in June, will be fit to play in the coming weeks but had not been touted as an option, given his age and lack of rugby. Even high-ranking Waratahs figures on Wednesday didn’t think he’d be in World Cup contention.

Instead, the 18-year-old will be on the plane to France with a chance to make his debut, alongside fellow uncapped players Blake Schoupp (prop) and Issak Fines-Leleiwasa (halfback). Jorgensen could go into a World Cup match without playing a game of rugby for three months.

 

[Bullrush]

I was specifically talking about Parsons as he was the captain and leader for an underachieving Blues team for years and years.

As for Quade in this particular situation I don't think his experience is particularly helpful. Gordon needs to grow and develop in his own space and not be looking over his shoulder with Quade in the wings wondering if he'll get hooked after every bad kick. It reminds me of the NFL and young QB - there comes a certain time where you need to move on from the veteran and unleash young player.

That has nothing to do with Quade and everything to do with EJ (Eddie Jones). Eddie is the one who makes the calls about who plays, who starts and when someone gets hooked. If you're saying that Eddie can't provide the leadership that gives Gordon that confidence or can't effectively communicate to his players what roles they play then OK.....I don't know but maybe?

Perhaps that's why there is only one 10 in the squad.

 

[Tomthumb]

You don't think Wright can feel hard done by Donaldson Suli and Jorgensen have been selected in front of him.. Jorgensen not even fit yet and hasn't played in months .

No, Tom Wright had chance after chance to nail a spot and kept fumbling it

 

[qwerty51]

Honestly if you look at the Springboks squad and this one it looks like two astute coaches tactically leaving out injured guys who could potentially play a part. It’s better to put the “worse/backup” player in the squad first and then replace them when the better one once fit and ready.

Now why they’ve had to announce squads already - no clue.