Wallabies 2024

[Tomthumb]

The lack of improvement in McDermott's game is typical of most current Wallabies. I really wonder what extra's these guys do skills wise outside of training. How McDermott is still so bad at box kicking and passing is really not good enough. Nor is Carter Gordon not being able to goal kick, nor is Valetini and Harry Wilsons inability to target weak shoulders into contact etc etc

Add in that at least the last 5 Wallaby coaches have bemoaned the lack of fitness of the players, and you have to wonder if these guys are doing all they can to be the best players they can be

 

[Derpus]

The lack of improvement in McDermott's game is typical of most current Wallabies. I really wonder what extra's these guys do skills wise outside of training. How McDermott is still so bad at box kicking and passing is really not good enough. Nor is Carter Gordon not being able to goal kick, nor is Valetini and Harry Wilsons inability to target weak shoulders into contact etc etc

Add in that at least the last 5 Wallaby coaches have bemoaned the lack of fitness of the players, and you have to wonder if these guys are doing all they can to be the best players they can be

As has been extensively covered in these forums and just about every media outlet still interested in rugby - the systems that develop players are failing.

'Extras' are things not essential to a players role that they take it on themselves to learn. Box kicking for a scrum half is not an extra.

 

[Braveheart81]

More or less applies to everyone

Does it?

Bell
Tupou
Ala'alatoa
Frost
Skelton
Valetini
Ikitau
Nawaqanitawase

Are all players I'm confident building around going forward. I can't say the same about McDermott.

Kellaway is reliable but likewise I'm not sure he offers the upside potential we need from a key position like fullback. I can certainly see Jorgensen pushing for that spot in the next couple of years.

 

[Tomthumb]

As has been extensively covered in these forums and just about every media outlet still interested in rugby - the systems that develop players are failing.

'Extras' are things not essential to a players role that they take it on themselves to learn. Box kicking for a scrum half is not an extra.

What system is failing Tate from practicing his box kick every day? or stopping Gordon from taking kicks every day?

Surely adult professional players need to take some ownership over their skills (or lack thereof)? Aaron Smith used to be a rubbish box kicker, but dedicated himself to improving. That wasn't because of "the system", it was because a player dedicated himself to improving his craft

 

[Adam84]

Does it?

Bell
Tupou
Ala'alatoa
Frost
Skelton
Valetini
Ikitau
Nawaqanitawase

Are all players I'm confident building around going forward. I can't say the same about McDermott.

Kellaway is reliable but likewise I'm not sure he offers the upside potential we need from a key position like fullback. I can certainly see Jorgensen pushing for that spot in the next couple of years.

Well yeah.. You’ve listed 6 forwards and we still struggle to get clean ball to the halves from set piece or rucks in general play….

 

[Wilson]

Does it?

Bell
Tupou
Ala'alatoa
Frost
Skelton
Valetini
Ikitau
Nawaqanitawase

Are all players I'm confident building around going forward. I can't say the same about McDermott.

Kellaway is reliable but likewise I'm not sure he offers the upside potential we need from a key position like fullback. I can certainly see Jorgensen pushing for that spot in the next couple of years.

I'm not sure that Frost or Nawaqanitawase's games are significantly more developed then McDermott's, both are far from complete with significant work-ons. That's not a knock on either player, at their age and stage of their career they should have plenty still to improve. It's also worth noting McDermott has also improved since first debuting for the wallabies - most noticeably in his kicking game. His support play which was already excellent when he first emerged has continued to progress as well - his prescence at the ruck off breaks and speed of play was crucial to many of our effective attacking plays this year.

 

[Derpus]

What system is failing Tate from practicing his box kick every day? or stopping Gordon from taking kicks every day?

Surely adult professional players need to take some ownership over their skills (or lack thereof)? Aaron Smith used to be a rubbish box kicker, but dedicated himself to improving. That wasn't because of "the system", it was because a player dedicated himself to improving his craft

The syste that has a player who can't boxkick starting for the Wallabies.

 

[Braveheart81]

Well yeah.. You’ve listed 6 forwards and we still struggle to get clean ball to the halves from set piece or rucks in general play….

One of them missed the whole RWC, two missed all but one game and Frost missed the only game the Skelton and Tupou were healthy for.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm not sure that Frost or Nawaqanitawase's games are significantly more developed then McDermott's, both are far from complete with significant work-ons. That's not a knock on either player, at their age and stage of their career they should have plenty still to improve. It's also worth noting McDermott has also improved since first debuting for the wallabies - most noticeably in his kicking game. His support play which was already excellent when he first emerged has continued to progress as well - his prescence at the ruck off breaks and speed of play was crucial to many of our effective attacking plays this year.

For the amount of time they've been in and around the team I think they have.

I don't think McDermott is a substantially different player to when he started out. The issues around his passing accuracy and kicking are still pretty apparent.

It's a position where we need to find a better player or for McDermott to improve a lot in the next couple of years for us to be competing with the top teams.

 

[eastman]

McDermott has gotten a pretty easy ride in these forums recently. I tend to agree with BH here, despite his upside and obvious potential, I can’t say that the Wallabies have ever really looked that much (or at all) better with him in the team compared to his competitors. You can’t say the same about Tupou or even Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase).

 

[Brumby Runner]

Well yeah.. You’ve listed 6 forwards and we still struggle to get clean ball to the halves from set piece or rucks in general play….

Clean ball is probably not so much of a concern if each of Bell, Tupou and Skelton are fit and available.

Incidentally, I am becoming less and less convinced that fitness is the problem a lot of posters here and a few recent Wallaby coaches have made it out to be. Specifically, the Brumbies have made the finals of Super Rugby Pacifica the last two years and losing in the semis has not clearly been a fitness issue. Similarly, forwards from all Aussie sides seem to have few problems getting to 60 minjutes or thereabouts and with fresh replacements for 5 or 6 of them the final 20 minutes won't really be won or lost on account of lack of fitness. Backlines of course could play 100 minutes without raising a sweat.

It all seems to me to be an easy smokescreen for coaches who are not getting their teams to perform otherwise.

 

[LeCheese]

McDermott has gotten a pretty easy ride in these forums recently.

Ay? There's always a pretty consistent torrent of commentary around his passing and kicking - maybe less-so recently with White and Gordon shitting the bed.

On that, I don't really subscribe to the idea that McDermott's game is poor in these areas - again, particularly in comparison to other options. Granted, his kicking in play is probably a half-step below White's (plus, he's not a place kicker like White and Lonergan), but I can't recall him delivering consistently poor pill. He's quick to get to and clear from breakdowns (a LOT quicker than Gordon), his accuracy is no more variable than anyone else, and his decision making is solid. Plus his ability to snipe and run support stands out amongst his peers.

 

[eastman]

I don’t think he’s a bad player and he might be the best scrumhalf we have, but I don’t think he‘s shown enough form in the Wallabies for his selection to be a given.

I actually don’t think it’s a particular skill issue either, I just don’t think his decision-making is world-class.

 

[Agent]

What system is failing Tate from practicing his box kick every day? or stopping Gordon from taking kicks every day?

Surely adult professional players need to take some ownership over their skills (or lack thereof)? Aaron Smith used to be a rubbish box kicker, but dedicated himself to improving. That wasn't because of "the system", it was because a player dedicated himself to improving his craft

I wouldn't care if I never saw an Aussie half box kick ever again! I think it is such a low percentage play that rarely reaps any real benefit and only invites our opposition to counter attack at us within our half. I know it probably has a place in the game but we have used it far too often I think.

 

[stillmissit]

On the topic of player ID and development. This is a serious read with major implications for doing nothing.

‘If I want to take it seriously…’: The foreign threat to Australian rugby

There’s a systemic issue that’s plaguing the Wallabies. Coach Jones is only one man, and no mere mortal could stop the Australian rugby giant from falling as hard as they have.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Froggy]

I would have Ryan Lonergan as Wallaby 9 any day, and as goal kicker, with Tate off the bench where his speed and running game can be super effective.

 

[Tomthumb]

I wouldn't care if I never saw an Aussie half box kick ever again! I think it is such a low percentage play that rarely reaps any real benefit and only invites our opposition to counter attack at us within our half. I know it probably has a place in the game but we have used it far too often I think.

It certainly has a place in the game, and it’s our poor execution of both the box kick and the chase that make it look so bad.

there really isn’t a valid excuse why some of our players core skills haven’t improved. A guy like Tate has so much ability it’s frustrating that he has stagnated so much in my opinion

 

[Yoda]

And if he reads forums like this and is negatively affected he is not made of the right stuff anyway.

No sane professional rugby player would read the garbage on here Wamberal…

 

[stillmissit]

McDermott has gotten a pretty easy ride in these forums recently. I tend to agree with BH here, despite his upside and obvious potential, I can’t say that the Wallabies have ever really looked that much (or at all) better with him in the team compared to his competitors. You can’t say the same about Tupou or even Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase).

NO Halfback or 10 is going to look much chop behind a beaten pack and all the time we are getting done at the breakdown both on attack and defence and even our set piece is fairly easy, at least our lineout is.
Fix the forward problems first before you start messing with the backs.

 

[whitefalcon]

My wishful thinking for next year.

Lonergan and Lolesio Wallaby 9&10 providing the combination from their playing at the Brumbies. Tate to come on in the last 20 for maximum chaos