Wallabies v England, Sat 11th June, 8.00pm, Suncorp Brisbane

[Groucho]

Hate to say it as I was pushing Colemans barrow last year, but in the few games I have seen of Arnold recently I think he may have just gotten the nose in front in developing his game. I'd prefer to see either of the new boys before Carter. Carter is a known quantity, a good solid reliable option, but inexplicably his ball handling seems to be worse this year.

Who'd want to be a selector.

It's also Carter's decision making. He has got on the wrong side of too many lineout drives. Couple that with his relative lack of mongrel and Arnold looks by far the better choice to partner a Simmons-type player.

 

[Groucho]

Regarding Houston, the Wobs will have seen all his Bath games by now. If he's good enough, the only advantage in waiting is that the fans get a look at him. So pick him. The question is whether he's good enough.

 

[Viking]

It's also Carter's decision making. He has got on the wrong side of too many lineout drives. Couple that with his relative lack of mongrel and Arnold looks by far the better choice to partner a Simmons-type player.

Agreed. What got Carter on the wallabies radar in the first place was his workrate and low error rate. I think he was the dominate force in the stats on his breakout year. Although he has experience now I certainly don't see him as the was safe-as-houses player he was a few year ago. And he certainly doesn't have the impact to justify selection.

 

[Slim 293]

Arnold's ball skills have also been very impressive the last few weeks..........

He keeps delivering these nice little pop passes and offloads to put players into gaps, and his general drawing and passing is putting many of the Brumbies' backs to shame.

 

[wamberal]

I prefer my tight forwards to be the recipients of the cute little pop passes and so on.

 

[Slim 293]

I'd imagine Holmes will start the first test regardless with Kepu joining the squad so late..........

Queensland’s well-performed tight-head Greg Holmes will likely start in the first Test against England with World Cup rock Sekope Kepu’s availability in jeopardy.

Kepu will only fly in on Monday should his seventh-placed French club Bordeaux miss the Top 14 play-offs by falling to Quade Cooper’s Toulon in Toulon.

Cheika has indicated he will not select players involved in the finals series so a Bordeaux win would keep Kepu in France and out of plans for Brisbane.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s/news-story/6925674b696f5fe01b206edb67f73662

 

[TSR]

Regarding Houston, the Wobs will have seen all his Bath games by now. If he's good enough, the only advantage in waiting is that the fans get a look at him. So pick him. The question is whether he's good enough.

My thinking with Chieka chasing Houston is that he may be looking at changing what we get from the backrow. Introducing a bigger body that has a bigger physical presence. I'm not saying he should, who would get left out, or that he would be changing things for the England series - but every report I've read suggests Cheika was instrumental in getting Houston back. From memory, all the players Cheika bought back last year were bought back with a reason and all of them made the final cut for the WC squad.

 

[TSR]

I prefer my tight forwards to be the recipients of the cute little pop passes and so on.

Why wouldn't we want our tight forwards offloading? So long as they are good at it and not just losing the ball in contact.

 

[Hawko]

Seems strange to have brought Houston back to not play him at all.

Not that I think your team is wrong.

Houston (and Naiyaravoro) brought themselves back to play Super Rugby. Both are part of the wider squad on performance and Cheik has them back for evaluation against their local equivalents. There will be injuries from the England series, and that's where these two guys will get a chance.

 

[TSR]

You may be right Hawko, but the way I read it Cheika pushed particularly hard with Houston and has been chasing him for some time.

Look - I'll be happy to be wrong. I don't see why he would get picked at present, but it just seems to me he is already in the plans somewhere.

 

[Hawko]

I prefer my tight forwards to be the recipients of the cute little pop passes and so on.

If you watched the Chiefs-Waratahs game you can see how devastating forwards pop-passing to each other can be. Palu to Skelton to Hooper was just unstoppable, and some of the Chiefs inter-passing in the first half was just devastating.

 

[KOB1987]

Agreed. What got Carter on the wallabies radar in the first place was his workrate and low error rate. I think he was the dominate force in the stats on his breakout year. Although he has experience now I certainly don't see him as the was safe-as-houses player he was a few year ago. And he certainly doesn't have the impact to justify selection.

I have to admit that I haven't been watching the form of either enough to justify my thought that Carter was ahead of Arnold, that was purely based on incumbency from the RWC squad. I've never been a massive fan of Sam's, I always thought of him as a solid option in the absence of experience.

Regardless of which of those 2 is preferred, I think they are both behind Simmons, Horwill, Mumm and Skelton. Cheika doesn't hand out caps willy nilly, he's very passionate about the value of the gold jersey and I think he will select 3 of those 4 players in the 23. If we have the series in the bag after the first 2 tests he MAY give Arnold a run in Sydney but that's about it I reckon.

Re Houston, I've been agreeing way too much with Slim lately, but I'm with him 100% on that one. I can't see him being picked ahead of McCalman or McMahon.

 

[Viking]

I have to admit that I haven't been watching the form of either enough to justify my thought that Carter was ahead of Arnold, that was purely based on incumbency from the RWC squad. I've never been a massive fan of Sam's, I always thought of him as a solid option in the absence of experience.

Regardless of which of those 2 is preferred, I think they are both behind Simmons, Horwill, Mumm and Skelton. Cheika doesn't hand out caps willy nilly, he's very passionate about the value of the gold jersey and I think he will select 3 of those 4 players in the 23. If we have the series in the bag after the first 2 tests he MAY give Arnold a run in Sydney but that's about it I reckon.

Re Houston, I've been agreeing way too much with Slim lately, but I'm with him 100% on that one. I can't see him being picked ahead of McCalman or McMahon.

I agree to an extent. I'm betting it will be Simmons and Horwill picked. I highly doubt he will start Skleton as he is in poor form and that would hinder the line-out further, so that would also require Cheika to abandon the 'pooper'. Skelton could easily be 1st choice bench option as he offers something different.

Is Mumm counted as a lock option? I don't think so. I think he is really cover for 6.

I agree on Houston - He has a lot of work to do if he wants to get selected ahead of McCalman but it could happen.

 

[Groucho]

You may be right Hawko, but the way I read it Cheika pushed particularly hard with Houston and has been chasing him for some time.

Look - I'll be happy to be wrong. I don't see why he would get picked at present, but it just seems to me he is already in the plans somewhere.

I think where he might fit is impact. I doubt Cheika will be messing with the Pooper to start but Houston (like McMahon) might be a Cheika-style sub off the bench. The reserve pack is looking increasingly test-quality.

 

[Tex]

If you watched the Chiefs-Waratahs game you can see how devastating forwards pop-passing to each other can be. Palu to Skelton to Hooper was just unstoppable, and some of the Chiefs inter-passing in the first half was just devastating.

Yep. Arguably the hallmark of Kiwi rugby and the reason they've been so effective is their forwards - tight and loose - having ball playing skills when needed.

 

[Sully]

To all those saying Houston won't get a start. Remember Kane Douglas last year?

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Tapatalk

 

[KOB1987]

To all those saying Houston won't get a start. Remember Kane Douglas last year?

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Yeah we were light on for quality 2nd rowers though, and the reason people were saying he wouldn't get a start was because he was still recovering from his injury.

We ain't exactly light on for quality loosies!

Nothing would surprise me though.

 

[KOB1987]

I agree to an extent. I'm betting it will be Simmons and Horwill picked. I highly doubt he will start Skleton as he is in poor form and that would hinder the line-out further, so that would also require Cheika to abandon the 'pooper'. Skelton could easily be 1st choice bench option as he offers something different.

Is Mumm counted as a lock option? I don't think so. I think he is really cover for 6.

I agree on Houston - He has a lot of work to do if he wants to get selected ahead of McCalman but it could happen.

The Tahs are playing Mumm at 6 but I don't think he's ever started for the Wobs there under Cheika - except maybe in the B team v Uruguay in the RWC? He was starting lock when we won the first Bled last year remember. I think he's a good benchie because he offers injury cover for lock, 6 and 8.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Arnold's ball skills have also been very impressive the last few weeks....

He keeps delivering these nice little pop passes and offloads to put players into gaps, and his general drawing and passing is putting many of the Brumbies' backs to shame.

I agree Slim, but I think he has shown that ability to offload pretty much since he first came into the side. Maybe he's more confident now and uses it in more situations. Put that together with his lineout skills, his ability to disrupt and at time dismantle opposition rolling mauls, his ability to carry the ball and get over the game line and his at times quite ferocious defense, and he is our most accomplished, all round lock in the country atm. He would be the ideal partner to someone like Simmons or Carter in the Wallaby second row.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I prefer my tight forwards to be the recipients of the cute little pop passes and so on.

They really need to do both. The little pop pass from Ruan Smith to Allan Ala'alatoa a couple of weeks ago shows just how threatening those abilities can be in the hands of thinking tight forwards.