Wallabies v Italy - 9 November

[rugbyAU]

Or maybe that was the worst British Lions team in history and would have been smashed in SA or NZ.

This Wallabies squad is the worst I can remember. In previous years, with Robbie Deans or Michael Cheika in charge, these types of matches and results occurred against the 2011/2015 All Blacks, back to back World Champions. Now it's Italy that's whipping you. That's really low. Argentina scored 50 points against Italy last year.

Italy lost 45-0 to SA and conceded 73 against France this year, their only notable result has been a win v Scotland and draw v France last year

 

[Donktec]

I watched some really good rugby over the weekend. Unfortunately, almost none of it was played by the Wallabies...

 

[Strewthcobber]

A couple of other observations after the rewatch.

Nick Frost has an almost unique ability to get himself into incredibly important defensive positions through sheer effort, only to hilariously be ineffective due to poor effort.

See the halfback blindside snape for the Ioane try. Got all the way to the far wing, and then limped back leaving the hole!

Harry Wilson has a unique way of hitting the line low and fast, and still somehow get smashed back behind the ad-line. His carries over the last 10 mins are incredible for their ineffectivness. I don't really understand how he manages it

 

[rugbyAU]

A couple of other observations after the rewatch.

Nick Frost has an almost unique ability to get himself into incredibly important defensive positions through sheer effort, only to hilariously be ineffective due to poor effort.

See the halfback blindside snape for the Ioane try. Got all the way to the far wing, and then limped back leaving the hole!

Harry Wilson has a unique way of hitting the line low and fast, and still somehow get smashed back behind the ad-line. His carries over the last 10 mins are incredible for their ineffectivness. I don't really understand how he manages it

Wilson always seems to just run into a brick wall

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Frost athleticism allows him to get into positions that surprise but then he's beaten clean more often than not. I don't think it's poor effort necessarily but poor skills in that facet. Big men in space are up against it to make those tackles v a more agile opponent.

It's a forever issue with Wilson now. He's not physically imposing or threatening to a defence. Runs great lines which at Super Rugby level often work out well but at the Test level those gaps often disappear so we lose his good hands in space.

 

[Tomthumb]

Wilson has fallen back into his old habit of just stopping immediately into contact. AS soon as he feels any contact, he just stops moving his legs entirely. It's one of the most bizarre things because even with just a bit of leg drive he could be so much more effective

 

[Rugby Head]

Well that sucked...

Hoping for this team vs Ireland:

1. Bell
2. Pollard
3. Tupou
4. Skelton
5. Frost
6. Valetini
7. McReight
8. Wilson
9. Lonergan
10. Gordon (If injured go JOC (James O'Connor))
11. Peitsch
12. Paisami
13. Ikitau
14. JAS
15. Jorgo
16. Nasser
17. Ross
18. AAA
19. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
20. Hooper
21. Thomas
22. JOC (James O'Connor) (If Gordon injured then Edmed
23. Daugunu

Think it's time we change a few things up, clearly hasn't been working since Ellis park.

Nasser and Fez do not fill me with any confidence, surely we can find a better back up hooker? BPA or Folau F, Folau now signed with the Tahs.

We need to get both Skelton and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) into the same 23, one needs to be on the field at all times. We have been getting monstered physically in every test.

Backline needs a big shake up, throw JAS onto the wing or FB to give him some more time.

I actually think we can have a good crack at Ireland and France if we can make a few changes, particularly getting some muscle in the forwards.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Wilson has fallen back into his old habit of just stopping immediately into contact. AS soon as he feels any contact, he just stops moving his legs entirely. It's one of the most bizarre things because even with just a bit of leg drive he could be so much more effective

I think it's even worse that that. I think he may be jumping into contact a bit, so he has no drive at all

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It's never been his game though and won't be. I hate that it's not, but then also have to shy away from critiquing it because guess what? We know.

At times wonder if he would be better at 6 in the Test environment and given a licence to roam a bit more as the bloke can pass, run and kick and push Valetini to 8 who can thrive in the front on contact.

The side missed a guy like Gleeson off the bench for 25 mins to go full boar. Don't think he's a starter but effective in being a punch in the face late in games to maintain the rage or shift momentum.

 

[Tomthumb]

I actually think we can have a good crack at Ireland and France

Based on what? Our last 4 tests have been absolutely insipid

Ireland just whooped the same Japan team we should have lost to 41-10. I get being positive but we are closer to tier 2 teams than we are to Ireland & France

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Best chance is that Ireland rotate the squad for Australia now and the French are due for a bed shitting.

 

[John S]

Which is why you box kick

Looking back at it, the box kicks (actually I'll include the other kicks from hand) weren't the problem - it was the lackadaisical chasing (or non-chasing) of those kicks that was a problem

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's never been his game though and won't be. I hate that it's not, but then also have to shy away from critiquing it because guess what? We know.

At times wonder if he would be better at 6 in the Test environment and given a licence to roam a bit more as the bloke can pass, run and kick at push Valetini to 8 who can thrive in the front on contact.

The side missed a guy like Gleeson off the bench for 25 mins to go full boar. Don't think he's a starter but effective in being a punch in the face late in games to maintain the rage or shift momentum.

Have been advocating for a couple of years for Wilson to go to 6. He owned that spot in the U20s and he has always struggled with being dominated playing 8. His best efforts to my eye have been when he is linking at full pace down the short side. Every time I've mentioned it in the past people here come out and say it doesn't matter what number is on his back. But it does. If he has 6 on his back, he will be expected to play a different style of game to when he plays 8, and that is a style that better suits his talents.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It absolutely matters due to how Rugby can often re start from a Scrum alone. Some players make it seem like the same position like Valetini could but Wilson's' play screams 6 but he looks like a prototype 8. You mentally shift depending on the spot your'e playing as well.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Looking back at it, the box kicks (actually I'll include the other kicks from hand) weren't the problem - it was the lackadaisical chasing (or non-chasing) of those kicks that was a problem

The chase seems to be limited to the closest winger. That doesn't really work when Corey Toole is that winger and only works sometimes for Potter. Pietsch is the best chaser and contester of the high ball.

Toole's (and Potter's) job should be to be nearby to pick up the dregs of dropped ball. The chaser/contester should be someone like Sua'ali'l but rarely does that seem to happen.

 

[Rugby Head]

The one that baffles me the most was the 4-5 kicks out on the full. How does this happen

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

That is a lack of focus.

Players at this level can execute and one offs happen but multiple is a drop off in focus. Italy were good but not executing that much pressure.

 

[rugbyAU]

Well that sucked...

Hoping for this team vs Ireland:

1. Bell
2. Pollard
3. Tupou
4. Skelton
5. Frost
6. Valetini
7. McReight
8. Wilson
9. Lonergan
10. Gordon (If injured go JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor))
11. Peitsch
12. Paisami
13. Ikitau
14. JAS
15. Jorgo
16. Nasser
17. Ross
18. AAA
19. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
20. Hooper
21. Thomas
22. JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) (If Gordon injured then Edmed
23. Daugunu

Think it's time we change a few things up, clearly hasn't been working since Ellis park.

Nasser and Fez do not fill me with any confidence, surely we can find a better back up hooker? BPA or Folau F, Folau now signed with the Tahs.

We need to get both Skelton and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) into the same 23, one needs to be on the field at all times. We have been getting monstered physically in every test.

Backline needs a big shake up, throw JAS onto the wing or FB to give him some more time.

I actually think we can have a good crack at Ireland and France if we can make a few changes, particularly getting some muscle in the forwards.

Paisami, Thomas and Wilson shouldn’t play

I’d like to see Gleeson

 

[John S]

The one that baffles me the most was the 4-5 kicks out on the full. How does this happen

The very first one seemed to be the least egregious - barely touched the inside of the touch line, but as it still touched it's out. Well, that's how it looked to me.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Harry Wilson carried 16 times on Saturday. Tom Hooper 14 (63 mins at 6, 17 mins in the row). Valetini 12 times (in 17 mins at 6).

I haven't counted, but my guess is 0 of these carries were straight from the scrum.

How do these numbers look any different if you change Wilson from an 8 to a 6?