Wallabies v Japan 25 Oct

[PhilClinton]

I don’t know if this really translates to a super rugby vs top league argument, SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) is clearly the superior product, and this wasn’t the best SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) players vs the best Top League players.

Super Rugby is 11 teams supplying 4 test teams(I’ve counted MP (Moana Pasifika) (Moana Pasifika) as 1)

Top League is 12 teams supplying 1test team, and some of the Aussie players are in Division 2(so another 8 teams)

I’m not disputing SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) is the superior product.

But I think this highlights that Australia still very clearly have a top 20 or so players and then the gap between the best Top League players and the rest of the Aussies in SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) isn’t as wide as many people like to make out.

 

[Pfitzy]

Gordon played poorly and his pointing where he's going to pass and predictable play and kicking. In the 2nd half, he was standing at the back of the breakdown and stopping any fast ball. The lineout was very poor considering the opposition, and the scrum didn't dominate.

Gordon kept Japan back in their own half through some excellent box kicking later in the game.

Given it was also pissing rain, this magical expectation of fast ball in wet conditions against a fast and well organised defensive line is questionable - and let's give Japan credit for that. Tackling in those conditions is waaaaaaaaaay easier than catch and pass, or just holding the ball.

The lineout was also poor but again: conditions. Both sides had a few horror throws and contested well.

The scrum got a marginal points victory, particularly important given we lost both second rowers and then the better of our two scrummaging THPs before even getting out of the gate. We weren't put under pressure at any point and while we conceded a couple of penalties, it was interesting to watch that decision making; during the first half the scrum penalties went with whoever was feeding, yet they looked to collapsed prior to the feed in much the same manner.

While I can be a miserable prick about the Wallabies, I'm going to be more glass-half-full about this result.

Again: Eddie can suck it

 

[KOB1987]

Again they're 13th and haven't beat a Tier 1 side since 2019 and have regulary been thrashed by Tier 1 sides apart from us

They still haven’t beaten a tier 1 side since 2019 and just some other results since then they have held France to a 5 point margin, NZ to 7, and Ireland to 8. I haven’t seen the team sheets of those games but I suspect just like our game yesterday it was Japan’s top team v a B/C team for the opposition.

Yesterday’s result would be analogous to the Waratahs giving the Lions a bit of a scare on the recent tour.

 

[stillmissit]

Gordon kept Japan back in their own half through some excellent box kicking later in the game.

Given it was also pissing rain, this magical expectation of fast ball in wet conditions against a fast and well organised defensive line is questionable - and let's give Japan credit for that. Tackling in those conditions is waaaaaaaaaay easier than catch and pass, or just holding the ball.

The lineout was also poor but again: conditions. Both sides had a few horror throws and contested well.

The scrum got a marginal points victory, particularly important given we lost both second rowers and then the better of our two scrummaging THPs before even getting out of the gate. We weren't put under pressure at any point and while we conceded a couple of penalties, it was interesting to watch that decision making; during the first half the scrum penalties went with whoever was feeding, yet they looked to collapsed prior to the feed in much the same manner.

While I can be a miserable prick about the Wallabies, I'm going to be more glass-half-full about this result.

Again: Eddie can suck it

We watched different games. Eddie is lauding his and the team's effort and speculating on a win against SA..He's Delusional, of course, but so are a few apologists for this abysmal game - compare it to our game against SA in Cape Town, played under worse conditions. At times, we were like under 10's all buzzing around the ball. Maybe not that bad - but getting there.

 

[stillmissit]

I think we are missing Swain...that will fire up a few of you.....

 

[PhilClinton]

From a narrative perspective - I would have much preferred the headlines to read “Wallabies clinical against former coach Eddie Jones cherry blossoms”. We clearly didn’t field a team which could make that happen.

We talk about growing our game and adding respect back to the gold jersey. The casual fan reading the score today doesn’t have the context we do and just sees a close game against a traditionally weaker team, on the back of losses.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I think we are missing Swain...that will fire up a few of you.....

Good in the line out but offers little everywhere else.

 

[KOB1987]

We watched different games. Eddie is lauding his and the team's effort and speculating on a win against SA..He's Delusional, of course, but so are a few apologists for this abysmal game - compare it to our game against SA in Cape Town, played under worse conditions. At times, we were like under 10's all buzzing around the ball. Maybe not that bad - but getting there.

I didn’t realize there was anyone still left in the ‘I value what Eddie thinks’ camp.

 

[rugbyAU]

They still haven’t beaten a tier 1 side since 2019 and just some other results since then they have held France to a 5 point margin, NZ to 7, and Ireland to 8. I haven’t seen the team sheets of those games but I suspect just like our game yesterday it was Japan’s top team v a B/C team for the opposition.

Yesterday’s result would be analogous to the Waratahs giving the Lions a bit of a scare on the recent tour.

Yep Ireland was in the 2021 Lions series

 

[stillmissit]

Good in the line out but offers little everywhere else.

That would have been better than what Williams or Canham offered. The few games I have watched in Super Rugby, he played as well as any of our locks except Skelton.

Can someone take Canham aside and teach him how to tackle a player head on without risking a broken neck?

 

[stillmissit]

I didn’t realize there was anyone still left in the ‘I value what Eddie thinks’ camp.

Maybe the Japanese union? I think that is all he cares about atm. He has rarely given a shit about what Australia thinks.

 

[TSR]

Some of the excuses here for a sloppy game are hilarious. When was the last time losing locks caused an entire gameplan to fall over? Sure the set piece might be clunky but I don’t think LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) was involved in too many backline set moves.

That display in my opinion was a bad advertisement for SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) being a top tier rugby comp. Posters on here love to shit on the Japanese comp when it comes to assessing whether Aussie players should be picked for the Wallabies but they just turned out a pretty damn good side from that calibre of players.

It wasn’t a good game by any stretch - but I think your first paragraph understates the significance of the loss of Salakai-Loto & Canham which was then multiplied with the injury to Robertson. Maybe they don’t cause the whole game plan to fall over but they certainly have a big impact on its effectiveness.

Losing Salakai-Loto & Canham de-powered our scrum & our driving maul and reduced the accuracy of our lineout. These are the guys responsible for doing the grunt work around the field to generate good attacking ball at the breakdown. Given they are both strong ball runners, and that we did play a tight game plan and that that they are two of our biggest players their loss is hugely significant.

We also lost the ability to bring Lonergan on with 20 to go as he was held in reserve for insurance. I also suspect Valetini was underdone and wasn’t planned to go 80. As the game wore on he looked more and more gassed.

 

[TSR]

From a narrative perspective - I would have much preferred the headlines to read “Wallabies clinical against former coach Eddie Jones cherry blossoms”. We clearly didn’t field a team which could make that happen.

We talk about growing our game and adding respect back to the gold jersey. The casual fan reading the score today doesn’t have the context we do and just sees a close game against a traditionally weaker team, on the back of losses.

Schmidt clearly rolled the dice though to try and get a result against England, France & Ireland. He’s basixallg come out and said that and acknowledged the risk.

It is obviously a risk and it might all come to nought - and has famously bitten us in the arse before - but it is a strategy pretty much every coach follows, and not just the Wallabies coaches. Roll out a weaker team against weaker opposition to both manage your energy reserves and build your squad depth.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Look forward to seeing what Kiss does but I tend to think we’ll see more of the same.

His career coaching hasn’t been as known as some free flowing wizard. He was affordable, available and interested in the job. probably the most affable HC going around which is a good thing for Rugby in Aus leading into a home WC.

Affable doesn't win test matches, Maaaate.

 

[stillmissit]

Schmidt clearly rolled the dice though to try and get a result against England, France & Ireland. He’s basixallg come out and said that and acknowledged the risk.

It is obviously a risk and it might all come to nought - and has famously bitten us in the arse before - but it is a strategy pretty much every coach follows, and not just the Wallabies coaches. Roll out a weaker team against weaker opposition to both manage your energy reserves and build your squad depth.

Agree TSR, what Schmidt is really saying is that we have no depth and for us to win in major contests, we may have to roll the dice in other games.

As you state, there is a risk in that, and it cost Rennie his job. My problem has always been our defensive structures, which seem outdated to me, I would prefer that he use the bench a bit more to bring on guys he thinks can step up.

The Elephant in the room is that this tour and every game from here on to RWC must improve our standing on the table. Our stats look barely different to Rennies, and although we are playing better other teams are playing better as well. I think we can do it but this is not the time to roll out a game plan like this one. It struck me as very conservative and full of risk.

 

[stillmissit]

Affable doesn't win test matches, Maaaate.

True BR and I would prefer Larkham in the seat, but the odd thing about life is you never know until reality hits. Let's hope they go well, getting to the semi's should be the minimum for us.

 

[KOB1987]

Agree TSR, what Schmidt is really saying is that we have no depth and for us to win in major contests, we may have to roll the dice in other games.

That would be your own interpretation of it, no one else has said that. As TSR says, we roll out our weaker teams against weaker opponents, just like every tier 1 coach forever and a day has done .

 

[Brumby Runner]

In my view, expressed here in days before the game, Schmidt almost did a Rennie with his selections in this game. I had and have no issue with starting the game with an essentially development team but he really needed more starting quality on the bench. Either TT or AAA in 18 would have given them a much stronger finishing side as would have Frost in place of Canham, Gordon in place of Stewart and perhaps Jorgo in place of Daugunu. This latter change is debatable though as either Jorgo or Filipo would offer improvement over Corey Toole.

With those replacements, had the starting side been able to build a winning lead, the players deemed to be crucial for the remaining games could have had minimal or no minutes off the bench but in the circumstances of this match they would have been more effective in putting the game to bed with some decent minutes in the second half. We had to be very mindful that there were significant world ranking points on the line in this game with Japan being ranked well below the Wallabies. I think Schmidt failed in this regard in this game.

The real game to rest players would probably have been either Ireland or France where a loss would likely have little affect on the rankings.

 

[TSR]

Personally I’d rather we go for the win against both Ireland & France.

It was a calculated risk and - despite the misgivings in here - we won. I do understand why people are frustrated but I am surprised at the level of surprise in our performance. As soon as Salakai-Loto got injured I was worried and when Canham went down my first thought was we could be fucked here.

 

[Pfitzy]

Personally I’d rather we go for the win against both Ireland & France.

If we win every game 19-15 on this tour there are still people who won't be happy.