Wallabies v Lions Game 2 MCG 26 July

[Strewthcobber]

Generally yes, though it's worth noting that he's very complimentary of the accuracy of Lynagh's kicking game and the associated strategy, which does help explain why he was preferred over Donaldson, who doesn't have the same degree of control.

Think he was a bit generous there, showing one excellelnt kick, and one OK kick that turned out really well because the Lions winger fell over.

If he did the cut of every kick like he did for the flat footed stationary shovelling I wonder how many were actually good kicks

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

The more the hours trickle away the more I lean in to the idea of dropping Potter, bringing in Paisami and shifting JAS to the wing. FNP last night really highlighted the need to try and belt the lions where you can, and I was really really impressed by Paisami in that reds game in that aspect.

I also think that based on what we've seen, JAS would excel particularly against the Lions on the wing. Theyre going to pepper him with high balls he can handle, and he would be in a great spot to attack our own box kicks on his side of the field. I also think hes a fantastic finisher in open field space.

Nothing against Potter, think he's a fine young player, I just think this is the lineup we need to get more effective in the backs. Doubt Schmidt feels the same way unfortunately.

Edit: also lets Len move back to his position at 13 where he's arguably the worlds best, and I think Paisami matches up with Tuipolotu quite well.

 

[Tomthumb]

They actually don't seem that great at covering the backfield or dealing with the aerial attack. We just kicked too deep and without enough hang time. I would keep targetting that personally and just ditch the passive D.

Problem is we looked pretty vulnerable under the high ball to, especially Lynagh

We are going to need to get Ikitau, Wright, JAS and Jorgo the ball in space if we are going to have any hope of winning this series IMO

 

[Sword of Justice]

They actually don't seem that great at covering the backfield or dealing with the aerial attack. We just kicked too deep and without enough hang time. I would keep targetting that personally and just ditch the passive D.

Yeah aside from the period of play identified by Mr S Cobber a little while ago on these pages I didn’t think the decision making of the inside backs was too bad. The execution was too bad though and the Lions don’t need cohesion to punish that sort of thing. I really hope Lynagh or whomever is selected will continue to look to punish off the boot. He definitely can do better in terms of execution, we have seen it at Super level.

 

[Strewthcobber]

If you want to see the segment on Lynagh it goes for around a minute from 11:19. Not great viewing

 

[Wilson]

Think he was a bit generous there, showing one excellelnt kick, and one OK kick that turned out really well because the Lions winger fell over.

If he did the cut of every kick like he did for the flat footed stationary shovelling I wonder how many were actually good kicks

It was part of a broader statement about how the wallabies kicking game was very effective in denying the Lions a set piece platform to attack off of - he doesn't need to show all the kicks to prove that out, it's pretty clear there in the singular line out throw the Lions had in an attacking position.

I'm not trying to suggest it rights all of Lynagh's wrongs or he comes out of it looking fantastic as a result, but it's pointing out how the clearest distinction between his and Donaldson's game was utilised by Schmidt, and suggests why he might have been preferred (and might continue to be preferred) to fit the current game plan. That may well change if Schmidt decides it's not working on balance, but with other changes to come and (hopefully) improve our ball carrying he may also see it as something worth persisting with, to avoid needing to massively change one of the more successful parts of the game plan on the fly.

 

[Dctarget]

Potter is one of our bigger bodies and meant to be good under the high ball. Paisami would and did get manhandled.
Minor tinkering:
- Pietsch for Potter
- Start Valetini, drop NCdC completely
- Gleeson onto bench for Tizzano

 

[Veritas]

The nepotism card? Really? Now that thinking is sad.

If you really believe in your heart of hearts that he was treated the same as any other 17 year old and was brought across purely based on his absolute superior talent and athleticism I stand corrected. Please accept my sincere apology.
Maybe we scout the UK for more 17 year old exceptional talent that might be floating around.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm not sure if I should read that much into it, but Harry Potter appearing with Harry Wilson for the Essendon media op today possibly indicates he's not being dropped...

 

[Tomthumb]

Honestly I think Tizzano is closer to starting at 7 than being out of the 23

 

[Yoda]

It was part of a broader statement about how the wallabies kicking game was very effective in denying the Lions a set piece platform to attack off of - he doesn't need to show all the kicks to prove that out, it's pretty clear there in the singular line out throw the Lions had in an attacking position.

I'm not trying to suggest it rights all of Lynagh's wrongs or he comes out of it looking fantastic as a result, but it's pointing out how the clearest distinction between his and Donaldson's game was utilised by Schmidt, and suggests why he might have been preferred (and might continue to be preferred) to fit the current game plan. That may well change if Schmidt decides it's not working on balance, but with other changes to come and (hopefully) improve our ball carrying he may also see it as something worth persisting with, to avoid needing to massively change one of the more successful parts of the game plan on the fly.

Schmidt's biggest mistake I see is he gave a promising young 10 on his Test L plates the starting role to a once in 12 year Test campaign. His kicking accuracy wasn't displayed and under a high ball he was singled out. Not at least pairing him with his regular partner in McDermott is crazy. I know most rugby games are decided by a great forward dominance... as witnessed by Pacifica last night, but Farrell would be basing a lot of his attack on young Tom being a weak link. Coming off the bench would have been a better tactic. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and the Wallabies come out firing like Pacifica did and young Tom plays well. Ikitau needs to pass the ball or Tom cut him out occasionally. Wright needs to get more ball and Jorgo. We can definitely win, but we have to play like the Lions have been all tour. Offside in defence! The referees are obviously not policing it so play it the same.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I like the theory of a bomb squad, but 0-1 down, if we go 19 points down again 45 mins in, then it doesn't matter who is on the bench.

For me, it's no strategy, no cleverness, just best team out there starting and hold on if we can, with the caveat that Schmidt gas made some choices that he has to stick with now eg Gordon and Lynagh - McDermott and Donaldson play their role in getting us home.

Bell starts. Valetini in for CDC. CDC out and Hooper remains.

Locks as is for workrate, with Skelton on the bench.

Tizzano keeps his spot and scores the try to win the game at 79 mins

 

[Braveheart81]

If you really believe in your heart of hearts that he was treated the same as any other 17 year old and was brought across purely based on his absolute superior talent and athleticism I stand corrected. Please accept my sincere apology.
Maybe we scout the UK for more 17 year old exceptional talent that might be floating around.

Of course he wasn't treated the same as any 17 year old. He wasn't plucked from obscurity though. He was in the Harlequins academy as part of an elite development program.

The Reds clearly had an interest in getting the son of a legend back to Australia and being part of their team.

It's pretty clear it was a sound decision. He was in the same cohort in the under 20s as Jack Bowen and Harry McLaughlin-Phillips (albeit HMP had another year of eligibility) and is clearly ahead of both of them right now.

 

[Veritas]

When I read old mate's post I honed in on this bit - "Here is the true measuring stick, he will not make the bench, never mind start in any of the other tier 1 nations in the world" - because while that is probably true of Tom, it's also probably true of every single one of our domestic fly half options.

Fair comment

 

[Braveheart81]

Schmidt's biggest mistake I see is he gave a promising young 10 on his Test L plates the starting role to a once in 12 year Test campaign. His kicking accuracy wasn't displayed and under a high ball he was singled out. Not at least pairing him with his regular partner in McDermott is crazy. I know most rugby games are decided by a great forward dominance... as witnessed by Pacifica last night, but Farrell would be basing a lot of his attack on young Tom being a weak link. Coming off the bench would have been a better tactic. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and the Wallabies come out firing like Pacifica did and young Tom plays well. Ikitau needs to pass the ball or Tom cut him out occasionally. Wright needs to get more ball and Jorgo. We can definitely win, but we have to play like the Lions have been all tour. Offside in defence! The referees are obviously not policing it so play it the same.

Lynagh passed the ball a total of 12 times in the 60 minutes he played. For a lot of that period we were under pressure and had very little ball in the Lions half. Donaldson made 13 passes in 20 minutes.

I don't think Ikitau's carries rather than passing were a mistake. They were largely under pressure against a set defensive line and little opportunity. I think spreading the ball wider in those situations just results in turnovers.

McDermott was great when he was on but I wouldn't now start him because of that. Does he do substantially better in a half where the game is a lot tighter, we're getting dominated physically and the main thing the halfback is doing is clearing kicks from the base of the ruck? I don't think it would be a reasonable assumption to suggest that the first half struggles were down to the halfback rather than having a pack getting smashed on both sides of the ball. If you swap them around I think you end up with the worst of both worlds.

 

[Veritas]

Of course he wasn't treated the same as any 17 year old. He wasn't plucked from obscurity though. He was in the Harlequins academy as part of an elite development program.

The Reds clearly had an interest in getting the son of a legend back to Australia and being part of their team.

It's pretty clear it was a sound decision. He was in the same cohort in the under 20s as Jack Bowen and Harry McLaughlin-Phillips (albeit HMP had another year of eligibility) and is clearly ahead of both of them right now.

Again my apologies. I was under the impression that the Lynaghs approached the Reds due to lack of interest from England. Did not know the Reds chased him. My bad. Massive loss for England and the Harlequins I guess.

 

[Yoda]

Lynagh passed the ball a total of 12 times in the 60 minutes he played. For a lot of that period we were under pressure and had very little ball in the Lions half. Donaldson made 13 passes in 20 minutes.

I don't think Ikitau's carries rather than passing were a mistake. They were largely under pressure against a set defensive line and little opportunity. I think spreading the ball wider in those situations just results in turnovers.

McDermott was great when he was on but I wouldn't now start him because of that. Does he do substantially better in a half where the game is a lot tighter, we're getting dominated physically and the main thing the halfback is doing is clearing kicks from the base of the ruck? I don't think it would be a reasonable assumption to suggest that the first half struggles were down to the halfback rather than having a pack getting smashed on both sides of the ball. If you swap them around I think you end up with the worst of both worlds.

Cutting Ikitau straight to Sua'ali'i occasionally is what I meant. It's too pedestrian and easily defended just shovelling it out. Ikitau is a 13 playing out of position and it shows. Hey, I'm just a punter on the sidelines though.

 

[Derpus]

Potter is one of our bigger bodies and meant to be good under the high ball. Paisami would and did get manhandled.
Minor tinkering:
- Pietsch for Potter
- Start Valetini, drop NCdC completely
- Gleeson onto bench for Tizzano

No Skellyboi?

 

[Rugby Head]

I'd like to see:

1 - Bell (Play 60-65 mins)
2 - Pollard
3 - AA (Play 60-65 mins)
4 - Frost
5 - Skelton
6 - Valetini
7 - McReight
8 - Wilson
9 - McDermott
10 - Lynagh
11 - Pietsch
12 - Ikitau
13 - Sua'ali'i
14 - Jorgensen
15 - Wright

16 - Faessler
17 - Slipper
18 - Robertson
19 - Hooper
20 - Gleeson
21 - Gordon
22 - Donaldson
23 - Paisami (Coming on for Pietsch and putting Sua'ali'i onto the wing for the final 20 mins)

Would love LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) on the bench and have a 6-2 split but might be too tough a task backing up from Tuesday.

 

[Braveheart81]

Cutting Ikitau straight to Sua'ali'i occasionally is what I meant. It's too pedestrian and easily defended just shovelling it out. Ikitau is a 13 playing out of position and it shows. Hey, I'm just a punter on the sidelines though.

Ikitau had 11 runs for 24 metres and Sua'ali'i 10 runs for 22 metres.

I certainly get what you're talking about because I felt the same on Saturday night that Ikitau kept trucking it up with little opportunity for it to eventuate into anything but on review, the load was shared and they both trucked it up a lot with little opportunity for it to eventuate into anything .

I think it changes very rapidly once we get closer to parity in the forwards. Suddenly there's a bit more space to get the ball wider and those carries don't seem so pointless.