Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Chris McCracken]

It's curious that Cooper is "locked in" by many, given how little rugby he's played this season. If he was fit and in form, I'd say no problem, but it seems a bit presumptuous at the moment to be so confident of it. I'd say 10 is well open until we have some more surety of his performance. I'm a little concerned about To'omua too, getting re-injured. Cooper / Foley and To'omua is quite a different prospect to, say, Foley / Leali'ifano and ????
The latter scenario might raise Giteau's stocks a fair bit, although I'm a tad sceptical that he is the answer.

As a Reds fan, I'd love to see Cooper make it, but I'm with you. There's no way he's a lock. I think To'omua - if he's fit - will be seen as a 12. I think the subtext of him playing there this week implies that, too.

I think of Leali'ifano as a 12 now, too.

I really think we'll end up with Foley, Cooper, O'Connor and Beale in the squad somehow, with Foley as the starter at 10.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm seeing JOC (James O'Connor) listed on the left wing quite a bit today...........

Did he make up for a whole season of below average form last night?

I'm still leaning towards a AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Speight/Folau back 3.

 

[qwerty51]

I agree his form has been poor but.. if Foley isn't the 10 who else is going to goal kick?

 

[wamberal]

I agree his form has been poor but.. if Foley isn't the 10 who else is going to goal kick?

Nobody. Not Foley, either.

 

[Slim 293]

I agree his form has been poor but.. if Foley isn't the 10 who else is going to goal kick?

If it's Cooper his goal kicking has been pretty good in recent years.......... But obviously with his injury run who knows..........

I assume our 10 is going to be one of those two though..........

Lilo is a 12 IMO...........

 

[Groucho]

Gill certainly won't be the first backrower picked, but he won't be the last either.....

However, he still probably won't make the RWC if Hooper and Pocock are fit as we don't need more than two opensides in the squad....

He'll be in the standby squad, and I think he should be given a run against the USA to give Hooper and Pocock a rest pre-RWC.

Will they need a rest? There's five weeks between the final TRC and RWC1. Six weeks to the crunch match against England! What they'll need (and what the Wallabies will need) is a game. Cheika will surely play his A team vs. both the USA and Fiji, to get them up to speed.

 

[qwerty51]

Nobody. Not Foley, either.

Foley kicked 7/7 last night and was clutch for the Wallabies last year.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Here's a question..... Are there still any outside chances and are there any players who solve a problem who aren't really being looked at? Especially the pre-season hopes and the off-shore players. A few examples.....

Does Harmichael solve a utility issue and can he even get a look in if the Reds start performing this late?

Does O'Connor really solve an issue and is he better replaced in the squad by a specialist winger (I note the talk of Naiyaravaro)?

If Mitchell was selected (as some are suggesting), who would he replace in the squad? Speight?

Is Giteau a walk-up start? If not, what if To'omua is unfit?

Earlier, we were looking at Arnold and Coleman as potentials for lock. Have they stood up?

Mind you, I may not have kept up with the thread. These may well have been discussed ad-nauseum.

 

[cyclopath]

Here's a question... Are there still any outside chances and are there any players who solve a problem who aren't really being looked at? Especially the pre-season hopes and the off-shore players. A few examples...

Does Harmichael solve a utility issue and can he even get a look in if the Reds start performing this late?

Does O'Connor really solve an issue and is he better replaced in the squad by a specialist winger (I note the talk of Naiyaravaro)?

If Mitchell was selected (as some are suggesting), who would he replace in the squad? Speight?

Is Giteau a walk-up start? If not, what if To'omua is unfit?

Earlier, we were looking at Arnold and Coleman as potentials for lock. Have they stood up?

Mind you, I may not have kept up with the thread. These may well have been discussed ad-nauseum.

1. Hunt - no, not at this stage
2. JOC (James O'Connor) - doesn't solve an issue, as we have quite a few wing options, but adds some utility value. Ahead of Naiyaravoro, though.
3. Mitchell - would not replace Speight for me, and is an outside shot
4. Giteau - not a start, but injuries might change that. Likely in squad for utility value / experience.
5. Arnold and Coleman - both looking very good for future but I doubt they'll see much, if any Test time this year.

 

[BDA]

It's one thing to complain about the form of our place kickers, it's another to suggest that we're incapable of kicking well that the world cup.

Cooper and Foley have both kicked well in recent years. both have done a good job for the wallabies in the past. JOC (James O'Connor) reminded everyone on Friday that he is a great kicker when on song, kicking 7/8, which included a few kicks from the sidelines. Giteau will likely be in the squad, he too has the experience and ability to win games with his boot.

Form is temporary. Both Foley and JOC (James O'Connor) showed you can turn bad form around pretty quickly.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

I would select both Coleman and Arnold. I dont like picking unproven young players in a RWC year where i think every match is important, but since the veterans eg.Horwill and Simmons, as well as the new blood in Carter arent good enough, and Skelton is still a liability at set-piece, i wouldnt mind giving them a shot. I think they complement each other well, both look good, although Arnold has Faded abit, and both are young and have plenty of time to form a very strong combination. Seems a bit unfair on Luke Jones, who was immense on Fridy night, but i think Arnold and Coleman have more potential and should be our Lock combo moving forward. In saying that if Jones and Skelton start i wont be complaining.

i think Karmichael is a very long shot. the bloke hasnt played even nearly enough footy, and i still think with the right gameplan, Fullback should be his position.

JOC (James O'Connor) hasnt been amazing this season, but he certainly hasnt been poor. i think other then crash ball runners like Kerevi, its pretty damn near impossible to look good in a backline -

A. With no acrual Flyhalf
B. with no front-foot ball
C. With very slow delivery from the scrumhalf

JOC (James O'Connor) still managed to look solid despite dealing with all 3 at some point, often all 3 at the same time. JOC (James O'Connor) with quality, quick delivery, and a strong forward platform and a bit of confidence is quite scary to watch.

if Drew is selected it would be instead of the Badge surely? my wingers would be O'Connor, Speight, Mitchell, Horne.

and finally if To'omua is out, i think Giteau would be our best option at 12 (provided he has had a chance to prove hes still up to test standard, which i think he definitely is). Beale can be a bloody huge liability, his sideways running can suck the life out of attack by cramping space, and Lealiifano is a very solid, but not outstanding choice.

 

[BDA]

5. Arnold and Coleman - both looking very good for future but I doubt they'll see much, if any Test time this year.

At this stage it's possible we'll see another lock debut in the Rugby Championship. Whilst I wouldn't count out both Carter and Horwill being selected in the world cup squad, there selection certainly isn't a lay down misere on current form.

Neither has shown enough outstanding form for the wallabies over the last 12 month to give them a free pass.

Carter has been largely invisible this season. Looking at the stats he's going missing for the Brumbies at times this season. Last night he made 6 tackles, two missed tackles and 2 runs. Not sure how many rucks he hit but that's not great for a guy who surely you would be looking at as a "workhorse" lock. By comparison Horwill, who has been pretty poor at times this season particularly in his sloppy defence, made 7 tackles, no missed tackles and 11 runs. His work rate over the last 5 rounds looks to be shading Carter, Arnold and Coleman slightly. Whilst I'm certainly not high on Horwill atm, I think he has some pretty important strengths (set piece) which might see him steal the 4th and final lock spot.

The big question is what is Cheika looking for in those remaining lock spots. If you look at the stats in super rugby this season, you'll see that Horwill and Carter are both used regularly as ball runners for their teams, and both are regularly targeted in the line-out. Neither Coleman nor Arnold run the ball much, nor do they take much ball in the lineout. They're used mostly to make hits in defense and move bodies at the ruck. That's not to say that they couldn't play a different role if Chieka wanted them to

 

[Gnostic]

@ Peter Toohey,

Back to front of this thread and the start it was said that Skelton couldn't be considered until he played 80 minutes and caught some lineout ball. Now the goal posts are moving?

Sanzar stats say he has taken 17 lineouts (1 turnover last night) while Arnold has 24. However Skelton has made 200+ metres with ball in hand and made 24 offloads and 3 clean breaks. He also has a 93% tackle completion.

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/teams/?competition=205&season=2015&team=200

Skelton beats Arnold on every metric except lineouts caught and that is only by a statistically small margin.

Carter the stats say only makes 80% of his tackles and makes exactly 1 metre per carry with the ball with no offloads, no tackles broken or defenders beaten.

Colman comes closest to Skelton in terms of run offloads and clean breaks etc and actually makes more metres than big Wil per run. But again his defence is not as high in terms of completion.

As for the old heads Horwill has had two red cards to start with but his defence is high 80% completion and he makes less than a metre per carry. Simmons is very similar to Horwill with better defence and slightly better carrying of the ball (which was a surprise).

I think it is pretty obvious from the stats that the starting second row will be a combination of Skelton and either Carter or Simmons. The 6 will then be one of Jones, Higgers or Fardy and at this stage I think it will go to the incumbent.

I think the most impressive thing about Skelton this year is the way he has been able to continue playing his running and offloading game, while improving his lineout and scrum work, all while being heavily marked by sometimes three opponents. He more than any other player since Willy O attracts multiple defenders for an Australian side. I cannot see how he can be omitted from the starting side. Knowing his lineout limitations just means the team has to use his skills in that area correctly, at 2 or as a lifter and include the right balance in the backrow.

 

[BDA]

I couldn't see Cheika selecting Mitchell in the squad, unless there is an injury or two.

A lot of talk of about whether To'omua will be available. For my understanding he hasn't suffered any serious injury and will be back in a fortnight. The continued absence of Scott Sio is more of a worry does anyone have a return date for him?

TPN is an important piece in our WC puzzle and I expect him to be there. His scrumming is strong enough that he can turn an average front row into a strong front. thankfully the emergence of Latu means that Cheika can manage his game time this season

For the game against South Africa I'd like to see Holmes as the bench TH and either Jones or Coleman on the bench. I'd prefer to see Cooper start the season at 10 (provided he plays the last 3 or 4 games in the super season) but that's probably unlikely given that Cheika seems to prefer Foley.

 

[Slim 293]

I think Sio shouldn't be too far away..........

 

[cyclopath]

I couldn't see Cheika selecting Mitchell in the squad, unless there is an injury or two.

A lot of talk of about whether To'omua will be available. For my understanding he hasn't suffered any serious injury and will be back in a fortnight. The continued absence of Scott Sio is more of a worry does anyone have a return date for him?

TPN is an important piece in our WC puzzle and I expect him to be there. His scrumming is strong enough that he can turn an average front row into a strong front. thankfully the emergence of Latu means that Cheika can manage his game time this season

For the game against South Africa I'd like to see Holmes as the bench TH and either Jones or Coleman on the bench. I'd prefer to see Cooper start the season at 10 (provided he plays the last 3 or 4 games in the super season) but that's probably unlikely given that Cheika seems to prefer Foley.

In his time as Wallaby coach, he hasn't had a huge amount of chance to start Cooper. He has been pretty candid about how important he feels Cooper is. I wouldn't assume he is locked into one player by any means, especially since Larkham will no doubt have a big say in backline selections. But Cooper needs some decent time on the field soon.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Skelton is currently our best lock at super level. His fitness and Ball-Carrying, as well as ball handling are exceptional and if our 2nd row has him in it i wont complain - until our lineout turns to shit due to lack of options, or poor quality options. As someone stated up above, Fardy and Hooper are well balanced and would make Skelton possible, although still weaken our lineout because our two best number 8s in Palu and Mccalman arent jumpers. Of cause then as well we would have to play A hooper/ Fardy backrow which isnt our best available, so then weakens our presence at the breakdown as well. Skeltons come on in Leaps and bounds but until hes a real, test level option at set Piece, i think the bench, where he can come on and go crazy for 25 mins would be best, or alternately until we get some more lineout options in the back row. Also Skelton has played more matches then Arnold and i think it would certainly be slot closer if they both had the same amount of game time.

 

[BDA]

Alexander was pasted in the scrum last night. I got the impression that it was more-so the LH that was getting dominated, but Alexander didnt throw too many shots in anger.

I'm really torn as to whether he should get the final spot in the squad as the 5th prop. I'd say the spot either goes to him or PAE. Given that Holmes can play both sides of the scrum I dont think Alexander's versatility is relevant. the 5th prop should be our next best scrummaging TH. I'd probably be leaning towards PAE. Not sure he's any better in the scrum than Alexander, but Alexander's reputation at test level has to count against him.

 

[Gnostic]

Skelton is currently our best lock at super level. His fitness and Ball-Carrying, as well as ball handling are exceptional and if our 2nd row has him in it i wont complain - until our lineout turns to shit due to lack of options, or poor quality options. As someone stated up above, Fardy and Hooper are well balanced and would make Skelton possible, although still weaken our lineout because our two best number 8s in Palu and Mccalman arent jumpers. Of cause then as well we would have to play A hooper/ Fardy backrow which isnt our best available, so then weakens our presence at the breakdown as well. Skeltons come on in Leaps and bounds but until hes a real, test level option at set Piece, i think the bench, where he can come on and go crazy for 25 mins would be best, or alternately until we get some more lineout options in the back row. Also Skelton has played more matches then Arnold and i think it would certainly be slot closer if they both had the same amount of game time.

Average the stats per game Skelton is still far ahead. In fact the only lock in Australia performing better is Jones and I think most here regard him as a 6.

And McCalman is a recognised jumper.

 

[Highlander35]

Cheiks certainly thinks of Jones as a lock, there was an interview about 6 weeks ago that said he talked to Jones on the EOYT, and said to switch between both would impact his development, and to stick with lock for at least the next two seasons.