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Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

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T

Train Without a Station

Guest
What's the big deal with head to head battles? Apart from the front row I don't think they mean a whole lot. Especially 10's, I'd be concerned* if the battle for the Wallaby 10 was based on how Foley & Cooper perform in isolation in the last game.


*unless QC (Quade Cooper) has a blinder.

If you want to show your superior to somebody, surely head to head is the best playing field to prove that without doubt.

Comparing against different opponents doesn't consider the quality of the opposition in each game. Head to head shows how they go against each other at least.

That being said, if Horwill had a blinder against Coleman and Jones then was putrid against the top teams like the Hurricanes, the Chiefs, the Bulls, the Brumbies, the Waratahs, the Highlanders whilst the other 2 did then fair enough. One game isn't the only thing to look at.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
I think TWAS made a reasonable point about perceptions of Horwill's form. I virtually wrote him off based on his laziness and lack of discipline early in the season. But he has shown some much better form and seems to have reigned his discipline issues in.

It seems the basis for a lot of criticism is that he is has never been able to get back to his pre injury form. But the most relevant factor is his form and ability relevant to his competition and, on that basis, I feel he will be still in the mix.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I think that we all "know" that Beale is a certainty for the Wallabies, but holy shit his defence is poor. His work to set up two tries for the Tahs against the lions was top class but in defence he gifted the Lions the front foot on nearly every occasion. I just cannot see how this hasn't been fixed in nearly 10 years of training in a professional environment (remember Beale started hanging out with the Tahs when he was 16)
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
If you want to show your superior to somebody, surely head to head is the best playing field to prove that without doubt.

Comparing against different opponents doesn't consider the quality of the opposition in each game. Head to head shows how they go against each other at least.

That being said, if Horwill had a blinder against Coleman and Jones then was putrid against the top teams like the Hurricanes, the Chiefs, the Bulls, the Brumbies, the Waratahs, the Highlanders whilst the other 2 did then fair enough. One game isn't the only thing to look at.

Head to head is always good but it can sometimes not draw a good comparison. Good example of this;

Is Hooper & Poey - 7s but play a different games, and have different strengths.
I also think QC (Quade Cooper) plays a totaly different game to Foley, Foley is very % and is a good safe player, QC (Quade Cooper) has that X factor that can win (& loose games), that X factor becomes a far greater % of success with game time and time with the team. I stress time with team as players become aware of his X factor and start to expect the unexpected.

But yes head to heads provide very good comparisons in most cases.

Hooper / Poey - first 2 names on my match day 23 (Hoops loose head / Poey hooker), but the starter is based on game plan.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
I have no idea what Beale is offering the wallabies atm. His support play in broken play is good and he now and then creates something in attack. Everything else is very poor. I can't even recall his last clear line break. he seems to lose the ball in contact / at the ruck more than any other player
 

Pete King

Phil Hardcastle (33)
. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. Higginbotham
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Folau

16. Latu
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Palu
21. Hooper
22. Giteau
23. Cooper


I want a side to win the tight gritty games V england and Wales. Hence

Best over the ball player (pocock > hooper)

Not the flashest of wing options but guys who wont let you down in defence.

Three best lineout options and most aggressive pack ( Higgenbottom )
 

nathan

Darby Loudon (17)
. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. Higginbotham
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) Speight
15. Folau


16. Latu
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Palu Hooper
21. Hooper White/Genia
22. Giteau Cooper
23. Cooper AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

I want a side to win the tight gritty games V england and Wales. Hence

Best over the ball player (pocock > hooper)

Not the flashest of wing options but guys who wont let you down in defence.

Three best lineout options and most aggressive pack ( Higgenbottom )


Fixed it up slightly for ya ;).

Jones can play both Lock and Six. Fardy can do also which allows them to shift if either Skelton or Simmons come off - only problem would be scrummaging ability.

Hooper, Genia and Cooper offer a really strong X-Factor combo coming on late into the game. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has versatility across multiple positions. Gits won't play 9, shouldn't play 9.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
I've chosen 2 teams based on game plan / opposition.
Genia has been my 4th choice half so far this season, still have a huge ? mark there, but from what I saw the other night QC (Quade Cooper) game him options, confidence, and created a bit more freedom. No injuries it could be the 8,9 10 combo in team 2 that brings back bill.


1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. Speight
15. Folau


16. Latu
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Pocock
21. McCalman
22. Phipps
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)


1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. Higgers
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. Speight
15. Folau


16. Latu
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Hooper
21. Gitts
22. Phipps
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
 

Pete King

Phil Hardcastle (33)
H
I've chosen 2 teams based on game plan / opposition.
Genia has been my 4th choice half so far this season, still have a huge ? mark there, but from what I saw the other night QC (Quade Cooper) game him options, confidence, and created a bit more freedom. No injuries it could be the 8,9 10 combo in team 2 that brings back bill.


1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. Speight
15. Folau


16. Latu
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Pocock
21. McCalman
22. Phibbs
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)


1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. Higgers
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. Speight
15. Folau


16. Latu
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Hooper
21. Gitts
22. Phibbs
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
e has made a return to Randwick 1st grade from europe but its a big step up for Pat Phibbs ;)
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Our wingers are nothin' special.

CFS is also ahead of Naiyaravoro IMO
mightn't make the RWC squad but it only takes an injury or two.
At the moment I'd have Naiyaravoro ahead. Maybe another season is needed for CFS to get where he could be.

However IMO "One Game" Cooper is on the plane. Genia should be as well.

Can Australia jag a RWC? Don't think we've got the five current world class players on Bob Dwyer's measure, so it'll have to be "used to be" and "close as we've got" to supplement a team full of journeymen.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Don't think we've got the five current world class players on Bob Dwyer's measure, so it'll have to be "used to be" and "close as we've got" to supplement a team full of journeymen.


Interesting that, i reckon a number of people would agree that a good world cup would have the following as world class. If we look back to mid season of 91 were the likes of Horan / Little / Eales world class - by Dec 91 they were.

with;
Moore - close to world class.
Skelton - may develop into world class (Eales of 91).
Hooper / Pocock - both can have telling impacts on games.
Cooper - of 2011 was would class.
Kuindrani - I think will be world class.
Folau - ???
I wouldn't usually include a fullback as i reference back 3.
I have also looked to chose influence across the park.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
CFS is also ahead of Naiyaravoro IMO
mightn't make the RWC squad but it only takes an injury or two.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Naiyaravoro had an interesting game last night. The Waratahs used him as a battering ram 8, not without merit either.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
If you want to show your superior to somebody, surely head to head is the best playing field to prove that without doubt.

Comparing against different opponents doesn't consider the quality of the opposition in each game. Head to head shows how they go against each other at least.

That being said, if Horwill had a blinder against Coleman and Jones then was putrid against the top teams like the Hurricanes, the Chiefs, the Bulls, the Brumbies, the Waratahs, the Highlanders whilst the other 2 did then fair enough. One game isn't the only thing to look at.


Consistent performance over the course of a season is a much better measure of superiority than a single head-to-head contest. Rugby isn't a one-man knockout sport.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Consistent performance over the course of a season is a much better measure of superiority than a single head-to-head contest. Rugby isn't a one-man knockout sport.

Did you read my post at all? I acknowledged that a lack of quality performances would not be absolved by a head to head.

But when people are debating the merits of 2 options, how they go head to head is relevant.

People played down Skelton being outplayed by Horwill and Simmons in a losing performance by the reds. Yet he failed to have significant impact on tests after that time also.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Did you read my post at all? I acknowledged that a lack of quality performances would not be absolved by a head to head.

But when people are debating the merits of 2 options, how they go head to head is relevant.

People played down Skelton being outplayed by Horwill and Simmons in a losing performance by the reds. Yet he failed to have significant impact on tests after that time also.

I did read (and have now re-read) your post. I have to say the meaning you've now provided didn't stand out.:)
 
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