Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[TOCC]

Does TOCC have a mystery fix to our current line out problems.
And the game plan that goes with it?

What part is mysterious?
Selecting a hooker who can throw accurately or selecting players who can jump?

 

[TOCC]

I actually think our line out will get better when the squad assembles. Simmons is an excellent jumper and Moore a good thrower at the very least. Add in Fardy and Higgers and you've got the beginnings of a pretty effective set piece. We don't often get dusted in that department at test level.

Exactly, Moore can throw accurately but he can also throw long, throwing long allows smaller jumpers(Pocock/Hooper) to capitalise at the back of the line-out. Also, Simmons, Fardy and Jones are very good line-out jumpers and a combination of 2 of these players in the line-out provides at least 2 viable targets.

If Higgers gets a run at 8 alongside Fardy-Simmons-Skelton with Moore throwing then the Wallabies could actually use the line-out as an attacking weapon.

Someone might prove me wrong, but I believe Hanson holds the record this season with no throws crooked or lost on his own throw.

 

[Dave Beat]

What part is mysterious?
Selecting a hooker who can throw accurately or selecting players who can jump?

My concern are line out options, and reading TWAS post it sounded like you had an idea that would give me some comfort.

I read some ones stats about a lot of tries being scored off line outs - I don't think we did that stat any favours on the weekend.

All I've suggested is looking at variations so we can attack the line out, win the ball and the phase variations after it.

I've also been reading other threads about the line out maul being policed differently???

 

[Scrubber2050]

What part is mysterious?
Selecting a hooker who can throw accurately or selecting players who can jump?

One's no good without the other

 

[Dave Beat]

Exactly, Moore can throw accurately but he can also throw long, throwing long allows smaller jumpers(Pocock/Hooper) to capitalise at the back of the line-out. Also, Simmons, Fardy and Jones are very good line-out jumpers and a combination of 2 of these players in the line-out provides at least 2 viable targets.

If Higgers gets a run at 8 alongside Fardy-Simmons-Skelton with Moore throwing then the Wallabies could actually use the line-out as an attacking weapon.

Someone might prove me wrong, but I believe Hanson holds the record this season with no throws crooked or lost on his own throw.

I also have the same thoughts with regards to your back row combinations a couple of pages back were you had Poey 7 / Higgers 8 or Hooper 7 / I think you had Palu or McCallman without going back.

 

[hammertimethere]

I actually think our line out will get better when the squad assembles. Simmons is an excellent jumper and Moore a good thrower at the very least. Add in Fardy and Higgers and you've got the beginnings of a pretty effective set piece. We don't often get dusted in that department at test level.

Relax, just because the Tahs line out sucked doesn't mean the Wallabies will. Far from it.

 

[hammertimethere]

My guess at a 35 man squad:

Props: Slipper, Sio, Kepu, Alo-Emile, Holmes, Robinson
Hooker: Moore, TPN, Hanson
Lock: Skelton, Jones, Simmons, Horwill
Backrow: Pocock, Hooper, Palu, Higginbotham, Fardy, McCalman
Halfback: Phipps, Genia, White
Five eighth: Foley, Cooper, Giteau
Centres: To'omua, Leali'ifano, Kuridrani, Ashley-Cooper
Wing: Tomane, Horne, Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor)
Fullback: Folau, Beale

I'd be stoked on that squad for the RC, subjectively looks like one of the stronger ones we have put out in the last few years. The injury Gods have been relatively kind to us (especially considering some of the players getting crocked over the ditch)

 

[Dave Beat]

I'd be stoked on that squad for the RC, subjectively looks like one of the stronger ones we have put out in the last few years. The injury Gods have been relatively kind to us (especially considering some of the players getting crocked over the ditch)

George Smith will no doubt also get a chance to show his form as well. It might be to give Hooper a few weekends off he's had a pretty long season.

 

[Train Without a Station]

My concern are line out options, and reading TWAS post it sounded like you had an idea that would give me some comfort.

I read some ones stats about a lot of tries being scored off line outs - I don't think we did that stat any favours on the weekend.

All I've suggested is looking at variations so we can attack the line out, win the ball and the phase variations after it.

I've also been reading other threads about the line out maul being policed differently???

Dave but don't you realise what you've said is, let's take the aspect of the game that is the origin of the largest percentage of tries, and adapt it to a way that makes it less conducive to scoring tries?

If some teams can't get their line out to function wrong it doesn't make the stat wrong. It more then likely makes them wrong.

You need to work with what you've got. But you also need to look at doing what seems to work, not disregard it and go attempting to headbutt brick walls.

 

[Train Without a Station]

George Smith will no doubt also get a chance to show his firm as well. It might be to give Hooper a few weekends off he's had a pretty long season.

Playing Smith is pointless. He's a known quantity in a position with miles of depth.

If you're going to rotate your squad you want to find out things you don't know. Like if a player is up to that level.

We all know Smith is.

Given the constraints on injury replacements I think the wallabies would be better served attempting a game plan with no specialist 7 on the chance of injury in a game. That's something that we don't want to find out in a semi final or something.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave but don't you realise what you've said is, let's take the aspect of the game that is the origin of the largest percentage of tries, and adapt it to a way that makes it less conducive to scoring tries?

If some teams can't get their line out to function wrong it doesn't make the stat wrong. It more then likely makes them wrong.

You need to work with what you've got. But you also need to look at doing what seems to work, not disregard it and go attempting to headbutt brick walls.

Did the Tahs have an option on Saturday when they weren't working?
I have never said every line out has to be short, I have suggested variations and game plans.
Who knows with the scores still close at the break on the weekend, could have been a handy variation to rest the momentum back.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But going to short line outs means you give up attacking threat for retention security.

The only way around it is pick a team that is good at the line out as a priority. That leaves room for Skelton, but limits who you play at 6 and 8.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I just had a look at the lineouts lost on Sat night. It's a fairly interesting exercise given the coaching staff involved.

• Skelton spent a lot of time out in the backline.
• Hooper was either in the centers or at halfback - didn't appear in any of these lineouts.
• There was virtually no attempt to change position or throw the Highlander jumpers off in any way

1. 1st was a short 3 man lineout that went straight through Pot's hands
2. 2nd was a short 3 man lineout where the Highlander got in front of Pots
3. 3rd was 5 man lineout to Pots at the back where the throw looks to be a bit short
4. 4th was a 6 man thrown to Dennis at the middle, he tapped it to the NSW side but the Highlanders got through onto the ball first
5. 5th was a 6 man thrown to Dennis at the middle. Highlander got it in front. The throw (Latu) looked too low
6. 6th was a 5 man thrown to Pots at the back. Again the throw (Latu) was a little short

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

As someone said elsewhere Skelton and Palu should never be on the field at the same time ... That definitely was obvious in tahs average performance.

Personally I don't think Skelton should be in Rwc squad ... Yes he is a massive human being, but his effectiveness, work rate, and ability to give away penalties rule him out given other way better options.

Would love to see his stats from Saturday. Versus some of the quality kiwi second rowers

 

[Slim 293]

What better options?

 

[Gnostic]

As someone said elsewhere Skelton and Palu should never be on the field at the same time . That definitely was obvious in tahs average performance.

Personally I don't think Skelton should be in Rwc squad . Yes he is a massive human being, but his effectiveness, work rate, and ability to give away penalties rule him out given other way better options.

Would love to see his stats from Saturday. Versus some of the quality kiwi second rowers

On average and not just one game Skelton's stats stack up against any other lock in Oz except Jones, just not in the lineout. But don't let that get in the way of personal prejudice.

It is the whole point of the discussion for the last X pages. I don't think anybody can really seriously question his stats.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Skelton's form makes his selection irresistible. The only question on his selection in the starting team should be based on the impact to the set piece and how the pack would need to be balanced to suit him.

I personally think his form warrants it, fardy at 6 works with him and fardy should be there and Higgers, maccalman and Palu is marginal, so Higgers at 8 works.

I'm pretty sure I read somebody mention England with Billy Vunipola at 8. But they didn't consider that Robshaw is a decent line out option which still gives them 4 without Billy.

 

[BDA]

Seems to be a few people panicking here because of last weekend's losses. I don't think we should be throwing out the bathtub just because of 1 bad game from the tahs. The Highlanders outplayed the tahs, the tahs didn't turn up. That's just rugby. If they replayed the game this weekend, I'd still rate the Tahs as favourites.

The tahs have had a pretty average line-out for a while now. That didn't stop them from winning the comp last year, and few teams have really been able to completely take advantage of it. They've also consistently been the most physical aussie pack over the last 2 years, which has been a big key to their success.

What last weekend's game does highlight though is the difficult task that Cheika faces in creating a world cup winning team. The key strength of a lot of the Wallaby teams around the turn of the century was their smarts and tactical nous. That's an area where Cheika hasn't really impressed me over the last 12 months. He's certainly shown that he can get the most out of his players, which is a really good sign given that our squad is looking to be pretty damn strong this season. But he hasn't shown an ability to win in different ways. He's at times neglected the set piece in his selections (both for the wallabies and the tahs). The result has been that tahs have lost games that they had the talent to win. Same with the Wallabies. I know little of Chieka's career pre-tahs so it might be that he has shown more strings to his bow with different organisations. But im yet to see it.

I love Cheika's passion and I really think he's going get the most out of our players this test season. My concern is whether he can get the right balance with the game plan

 

[Brendan Hume]

Skelton's form makes his selection irresistible. The only question on his selection in the starting team should be based on the impact to the set piece and how the pack would need to be balanced to suit him.

Agree he will be picked and should be picked. As you mention though- balance in a test team where the quality and pace are far greater than Super Rugby - is such a key ingredient. Skelton is such an unorthodox player, it will be really interesting to see how Cheika can mould the team to take advantage of his assets while covering for his weaknesses. I imagine before we get anywhere near the RWC we'll have an idea from the few RC games we get before heading off. I'm excited for the next 6 or 8 weeks to see how it unfolds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

Gnostic, thanks for those stats ... Confirmed my thoughts.
Skelton can't jump.. At 150 kg is it any wonder. The stats versus jones are staggering... A 2nd rower that cAnt jump, catch or compete in lineouts.

I actually saw Skelton take a line out late in the 2nd half and if memory serves me right it went right down his throat.

Yes he is so big that he can suck in defenders but it is not dynamic, it isn't try assist stuff.

Anyway seems like he has his fans ... Someone like Kieran read that is way shorter, lighter, but is dynamic... Haven't watched enough non tah games to pick the best 2nd rowers