Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Dctarget]

Okay I started another thread for team of the week, thanks for the idea TOCC.

Also I used your suggested team to get the ball rolling @qwerty, I hope that's alright.

 

[Marcelo]

Wallabies Facebook account made this question:

The Wallabies opened their 2014 campaign against France in Brisbane, where debutant Sam Carter earned Man of the Match honours for his tireless work-rate.
With the ‪#‎SuperRugby‬ season underway, who do you think will break into the Wallabies squad in 2015?

I'm amazed at the amount of people asking for Lopeti Timani. Could he become a test player in so few months? His appearance with the golden jersey should be similar than the Hooper's debut, take over his position from the first move if he wants to be part of the RWC squad.

Maybe the poor performance of our second row, make many people deposited their hopes on this guy who has no experience at international level. What do u think about him?

 

[Braveheart81]

If he keeps this sort of form up, Timani could very well push his chances as a utility player in the squad possibly at the exclusion or Jones or McMahon or someone similar (even Higginbotham).

We need to remember that Rob Simmons hasn't played a game yet and he'll be there. Skelton has started the season pretty well and his scrummaging looks much better which was his Achilles heel last year and Carter is also going well.

I think Cheika will be very wary thinking that he can pick converted backrowers at lock at test level. Otherwise I think there'd be a strong chance we'd see Fardy there. Maybe with Fardy at 6 though, there's a stronger chance that someone like Timani could spend time at lock.

 

[TOCC]

I'm sill not impressed with Skeltons fitness, he isn't a 80min player, one of the lads on TWF has broken down his work-rate for every 10min and he is most effective in the first 30min but really drops off after that. I still don't think the Wallabies can afford to have a player in the squad who isn't an 80min player given risk of injuries and workload during the cup.


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[Braveheart81]

I'm sill not impressed with Skeltons fitness, he isn't a 80min player, one of the lads on TWF has broken down his work-rate for every 10min and he is most effective in the first 30min but really drops off after that. I still don't think the Wallabies can afford to have a player in the squad who isn't an 80min player given risk of injuries and workload during the cup.

We went through a couple of tests last year where the 80 minute locks made less than half a dozen tackles each and barely any run metres.

Skelton seems to get smashed for looking tired whereas other guys who are coasting without seeming to get through much work get off scot free.

Skelton should be criticised for the one on one tackle he missed (I believe on Higginbotham) which cost a try last Friday.

Our big problem is that the locks for the All Blacks are about the best in the world but they're completely outworking our players as well as being more effective. They're making more tackles and more run metres and being more effective at the breakdown.

Maybe we do need to have one lock that is just a workrate beast like Luke Jones who will make a tonne of tackles and take some of the workload off some of our other forwards who are more effective with ball in hand etc.

 

[Wilson]

If Skelton can fix his scrummaging sufficiently, which he looks to be doing, then there's certainly room for him, even if he's only a bench option. The problem with Skelton not being an 80 minute player last year was that he rarely played anywhere near 80 at super level and looked physically incapable of it at test level. If he's at the point where he can reliably put in 70-80 each week for the tahs then it shouldn't be too great a risk.

The fitness seems to be coming so for me it'll all come down to the scrummaging at this point. He has gone better so far but he'll need to keep it up over the bulk of the season and into the RC to prove he's ready.

 

[TOCC]

We went through a couple of tests last year where the 80 minute locks made less than half a dozen tackles each and barely any run metres.

Skelton seems to get smashed for looking tired whereas other guys who are coasting without seeming to get through much work get off scot free.

Have a look at TWF, it's not about him "looking tired" it's a statistical breakdown of ruck involvements by every 10min.. There's a big drop off after the first 30min. Tackles are obviously relevant but I think rucks are equally important if not more important for a tight froward.
Who are the other guys coasting who aren't getting called out?


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[Braveheart81]

Have a look at TWF, it's not about him "looking tired" it's a statistical breakdown of ruck involvements by every 10min.. There's a big drop off after the first 30min.
Who are the other guys coasting who aren't getting smashed?

Well the reference I made to last year's tests was Sam Carter getting through 80 minutes with very little statistical impact to show for it.

Against the Chiefs on Friday he played 80 minutes, had 6 run metres, made 5 tackles (missed one). His one impressive stat was 6 lineout wins all on the Brumbies throw. He also gave away 3 turnovers and a penalty.

Now I don't have any ruck statistics so I can't comment on how heavily involved he was there.

I've never heard anyone criticising his fitness or involvement. It seems that it becomes a point of focus for some players because people consider them unfit but then others don't get discussed whatsoever.

 

[Slim 293]

According to Forcefans' stats for the EOYT Carter was one of our best ruck forwards..........

 

[Braveheart81]

It also comes down to the roles that players are being asked to do.

Clearly each and every coach is asking Skelton to run with the ball more than they're asking Carter. They're also presumably asking Carter to have a stronger focus on the breakdown than someone else.

Forcefan's analysis also showed that the coaching instructions go further than that and players are asked to change their involvement depending on the period of the match.

It does make it hard to compare players particularly objectively, even when they're playing the same position. Presumably the coaching mantra is to try and get the best out of each and every player based on their skillsets rather than trying to get every player in a certain position doing exactly the same thing.

 

[TOCC]

Well the reference I made to last year's tests was Sam Carter getting through 80 minutes with very little statistical impact to show for it.

Against the Chiefs on Friday he played 80 minutes, had 6 run metres, made 5 tackles (missed one). His one impressive stat was 6 lineout wins all on the Brumbies throw. He also gave away 3 turnovers and a penalty.

Now I don't have any ruck statistics so I can't comment on how heavily involved he was there.

I've never heard anyone criticising his fitness or involvement. It seems that it becomes a point of focus for some players because people consider them unfit but then others don't get discussed whatsoever.

So is the issue that you think Skelton gets unfairly picked on or that Skelton doesn't have a fitness problem.. I didn't watch the Brumbies game so can't comment on Carter. Skelton is in contention for the matchday 23 but he still has a serious deficiency and that is his fitness.

If people are pushing for his RWC inclusion then we shouldn't be comparing Skeltons statistics to the worst performing locks, he should be held accountable against the best locks form the weekend...

BH what is your opinion on his fitness, do you think it's good enough? How long do you think he will be able to play effective test match rugby?


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[Braveheart81]

So is the issue that Skelton gets unfairly picked on or is the issue that Skelton doesn't have a fitness problem.. Carter isn't In contention for the RWC match-day 23 In my opinion so I don't discuss him, Skelton is in contention but he still has a serious deficiency and that is his fitness.

If people are pushing for his RWC inclusion then we shouldn't be comparing Skeltons statistics to the worst performing locks, he should be held accountable against the best locks form the weekend.

BH what is your opinion on his fitness, do you think it's good enough? How long do you think he will be able to play effective test match rugby?


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Carter isn't in contention for the RWC matchday 23? Surely he's one of the frontrunners after 2014 probably second only to Simmons.

My point was that I think people look for certain things based on preconceived perceptions about certain players and then invariably will be able to find some evidence of that.

Everyone expects Skelton to be struggling late in a game because they don't think he's fit enough so that's what they're looking for.

My interpretation is that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Skelton is certianly much fitter and leaner than he was last season and I'd be interested to see how he fares in some objective fitness tests against the other locks (not that we will ever see this data). I think he certainly has further to go but so far this year he's being asked to play a lot more minutes than he's used to and will take some adjustment to that.

I think he can certainly make gains on his rivals in this area who are probably a bit more experienced and have had similar body shapes for a number of years.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I've watched Big Will's first couple of games this season and he certainly looks better than he has in previous years. He's scrummaging better and playing deeper into the game, which is what we need from him if he's going to be a starting lock at test level. Guys with his frame don't come along all that often, especially with the skill he brings with it. We'd be best off putting some considerable time and effort into him this year because he has tremendous upside if managed well.

 

[TOCC]

For me its simple, Skelton either has fitness issues he has to work on or he doesn't, if he does then you can't get upset when someone mentions said fitness issues. Especially when its these vary fitness issues which may preclude the player from the match day 23, yes he has improved and yes he is still young, but we are looking at the RWC match day 23, will he be in it and if he is, then why.. And if he isn't, then why...

If other players don't get the same criticism for the same deficiency's, its because of a variety of factors some of those are that they are in teams people don't watch as often or they are players who don't get the same media/fan forum exposure..

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

TOCC sure, no argument. If he has the fitness to play the required minutes then he's a big chance for the 23 at least, if not starting. If not, then he shouldn't be there. I have a feeling that he's going to get better and better though.

 

[Brumbieman]

Well the reference I made to last year's tests was Sam Carter getting through 80 minutes with very little statistical impact to show for it.

Against the Chiefs on Friday he played 80 minutes, had 6 run metres, made 5 tackles (missed one). His one impressive stat was 6 lineout wins all on the Brumbies throw. He also gave away 3 turnovers and a penalty.

Now I don't have any ruck statistics so I can't comment on how heavily involved he was there.

I've never heard anyone criticising his fitness or involvement. It seems that it becomes a point of focus for some players because people consider them unfit but then others don't get discussed whatsoever.

Carter is a piano shifter.

Skelton is being used as a runner.

 

[Brumbieman]

For me, Skelton is a bench player.

He's not fit enough yet, and probably won't ever be an 80min player. Coming on after 50 mins though, if his scrummaging is up to scratch, he's a great option.

A bench of

3 front rowers
Skelton
Pocock/Hooper
Number 8/6 option, someone who has genuine impact and can inject a lot of energy into the ball running effort in the last 20mins and get beyond the advantage line repeatedly


Is what we need to have finishing game this year.

 

[Tomikin]

What a silly conversation, we all know what Skelton brings, the reason we can run Skelton in the team is because of hard workers like Carter.

I'm not the only one to say this, but Carter is the hardest working lock in Oz, his not a massive ball runner, or lineout guru but good at both, but he hit ruck after ruck after ruck after ruck.... that means Big Willie if his smart, picks the ruck he gets to hit, so he can change the game.. and Im sure Mr Doug will agree that Carter is amazing ..

 

[Tomikin]

For me, Skelton is a bench player.

He's not fit enough yet, and probably won't ever be an 80min player. Coming on after 50 mins though, if his scrummaging is up to scratch, he's a great option.

A bench of

3 front rowers
Skelton
Pocock/Hooper
Number 8/6 option, someone who has genuine impact and can inject a lot of energy into the ball running effort in the last 20mins and get beyond the advantage line repeatedly


Is what we need to have finishing game this year.

Higgers is a perfect 8/6 bench option, although he maybe our best starting 6/8. But I love what he does in the end of games coming on late..

 

[Scrubber2050]

I wonder what will be Cheks selection criteria when it comes to those players fucking off after the RWC

Wuill he pick the best guys available or support those players remaining loyal to Australian rugby.

IMO he will stick with Kepu because he is so much better than the next bloke.
Horwill will not make the team and I suspect the same fate will happen to Nic White and Higgers

Thoughts?????