Waratahs 2013
- Thread starter fatprop
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I think he needs time there, but not to start. Let Barnes return from the bench @ 15 from 20 minutes and let Folau get some time on the wing
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Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Or a week part time with expenses. Can't expect high-flyers to pay for things themselves.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I think some people are thinking with their heart, not their head re Barnes. I think he's an intelligent and skilled player, but I'm struggling to see what he brings to the 2013 Waratahs. I've been a long-time fan of his, but I just can't see how he can get back into the starting team.
Looking at it analytically, 9,11 &14 aren't really options.
10 ahead of Foley - no
12 ahead of Horne - no
13 ahead of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) -no
15 ahead of Folau - no
His default option at 10 is to kick - not what Cheika wants.
His default option at 15 is to kick - rarely ever looks to counter and the few times I remember him doing so, he ended up changing his mind half-way through and putting in a kick under pressure. Definitely not what Cheika wants. In the analysis by Gibson this week, it was stressed that the Waratahs were determined to keep running the ball rather than kicking for field position.
He doesn't have the penetration at 12 or 13 that Horne or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) do.
I think he's been a loyal servant of rugby and seems a genuinely level-headed nice bloke. He's had a terrible run of injuries. IMO the best thing that the Waratahs could do for him and his family is to give him a release to play in Japan.
Looking at it analytically, 9,11 &14 aren't really options.
10 ahead of Foley - no
12 ahead of Horne - no
13 ahead of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) -no
15 ahead of Folau - no
His default option at 10 is to kick - not what Cheika wants.
His default option at 15 is to kick - rarely ever looks to counter and the few times I remember him doing so, he ended up changing his mind half-way through and putting in a kick under pressure. Definitely not what Cheika wants. In the analysis by Gibson this week, it was stressed that the Waratahs were determined to keep running the ball rather than kicking for field position.
He doesn't have the penetration at 12 or 13 that Horne or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) do.
I think he's been a loyal servant of rugby and seems a genuinely level-headed nice bloke. He's had a terrible run of injuries. IMO the best thing that the Waratahs could do for him and his family is to give him a release to play in Japan.
jay-c
Ron Walden (29)
i think barnes like all the waratah backs the last 5 years have been conditioned to kick with shit game plans> id be interested to see how he performs under a bit more time with cheika>> but if he wants a release id understand> thats a pretty formidable tah line up at the moment> but its only one injury away from us wishing we had barnes
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
You're right on both counts. The previous coaching regime ruined what were good backs with tactics/games plans. One injury and he's right back in there.
I feel really sorry for Barnes. You are probably right that coaching has gone a long way to change his natural game to one that is kick first. I think the head knocks didn't help in that regard, especially when at one point even the slightest knock put him down. When he came onto the international scene in 07 he lit up the game against Wales (funny that) with his running. He had really good lines. that has disappeared as a main part of his game in recent times. He was a one man backline when he was at Queensland. One of the reasons why his departure met with such criticism. He was holding the backs up.
Given time and consistency he may be able to get back to his best, but he is short on both. Been a big fan of his and it will be sad to see him go. Just as much as it was sad to see Burke, Grey, Waugh, Whittaker etc etc move on. But everyone has their time.
Given time and consistency he may be able to get back to his best, but he is short on both. Been a big fan of his and it will be sad to see him go. Just as much as it was sad to see Burke, Grey, Waugh, Whittaker etc etc move on. But everyone has their time.
I still think we'll see some good rugby out of Barnes in the back end of the season. I think he'll get plenty of game time including some starts. I don't think he'll be relegated to riding the pine for the rest of the year.
I also don't think he'll dramatically change the way the Tahs are playing. If he reverts to kicking everything he won't get any minutes.
I also don't think he'll dramatically change the way the Tahs are playing. If he reverts to kicking everything he won't get any minutes.
The departures of players like Burke, Grey, Waugh, Whitaker, etc from Oz Super squads impoverishes Australian rugby. It's strange how we seem to think they're too old while they slot straight into some European (or Japanese) side. Look at David Lyons, still running around for his SECOND European team at Stade Francais. And Radike Samo's successful return to these shores. If we could hold on to some of these blokes we'd be retaining some intellectual property I think we desperately need. As long as they're not keeping a deserving young bloke out of a spot, as I reckon Waugh did in his last few years. If Cheika's aiming for a European-style squad with a lot more rotation this could be a significant evolution in Super Rugby.
Burke's shunting aside for Sailor really is a damning indictment on those in charge at the time.
On the matter of Barnes at the Tahs this year, I sincerely hope he grasps the Cheika ball-in-hand philosophy with both hands. I'd like to see him get at least 25 minutes at fullback next week with Folau moving to the wing, probably left. And I'd like to see how Folau goes on the wing as well.
Burke's shunting aside for Sailor really is a damning indictment on those in charge at the time.
On the matter of Barnes at the Tahs this year, I sincerely hope he grasps the Cheika ball-in-hand philosophy with both hands. I'd like to see him get at least 25 minutes at fullback next week with Folau moving to the wing, probably left. And I'd like to see how Folau goes on the wing as well.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I don't think it's that people think that they're too old, it's just that there is a limited amount of money and professional postions available in Australian rugby. It's not so long ago there were only 3 professional teams, which equated to about 100 players. Even with 5 teams there's less than 200. Fringe players and players nearing the end of their career can simply earn more money overseas and the law of supply and demand takes effect.
Unfortunately, I can't see this changing in the short term, as the only way to bring more money in is to have more people playing the game at the base of the pyramid. This brings more supporters and potential TV viewers, merchandise purchasers, etc. The 3rd tier if it ever comes isn't the answer to this problem as it will be semi-pro, if it ever comes about.
The way were are going, it will take decades to increase the player base. (I'm talking about the actual player base, rather than rubbery statistics, which double, triple or quadruple count juniors and include golden oldies and people who play 1 game of rugby a year in a school knock-out gala day.)
Unless you are pretty much on the top tier of ARU contracts, you'd be forsaking a lot of money to stay in Australia compared to what you are going to earn in Europe or Japan. When you're struggling to pay the mortgage or the school fees when you're in you 40's, and long retired, the ARU aren't going to pony up the dough.
T
TOCC
Guest
I think quite simply when players are in the 29-31 bracket it makes more sense for them to chase their pension cheque in Europe, the standard of play is often lower then that of Super Rugby meaning they can lengthen their remaining playing career marginally...
Australia and the ARU will always struggle to retain the older statesmen, in many cases they are on the decline when they leave so it doesnt make sense for the ARU/provinces to keep paying them as much as they were.... Players like Latham, Burke, Whitaker may have all had a few more years left in them, but they were past their best and it served there families well to chase the money..
Australia and the ARU will always struggle to retain the older statesmen, in many cases they are on the decline when they leave so it doesnt make sense for the ARU/provinces to keep paying them as much as they were.... Players like Latham, Burke, Whitaker may have all had a few more years left in them, but they were past their best and it served there families well to chase the money..
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
It was actually two years after he left the Reds.........
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I could not agree more. The loss of the experience and depth that these players brought was a massive blow to a team like the Tahs. I wonder how much of their departure was down to Tah politics. If there was no longer a spot at the Tahs imagine then what Lyons, Burke, etc could have brought to the Rebels. As for Whitaker IMO he was perhaps one of the most unlucky players ever in Oz Rugby. For the last two years of his time in Australian Rugby he was without doubt the best 9 in the country but Gregan held the position. I would have loved to have seen him remain.
There have been a multitude of players leave Australian Rugby to play some of their best years OS, when they could have been great players here, if not Wallabies, players who form the foundation of the Province they play at. This is a reason I see that the entire ARU contracting system has to be overhauled and the "top up" system done away with.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Competition for places is never a bad thing, discourages complacency, provides injury cover and gives Cheika options to tweak the game plan for certain opposition. I guess Cheika is trying to put next phase in place so that the Tahs don't fall apart, like last year, during an injury crisis.
mjw
Larry Dwyer (12)
Phipps did ok against Chiefs, but I am wondering about Jono Lance.
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